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Comment by sawaruna | Hacker News Reader

>Does a new payment method on mobile mean purchases there are less safe?

>No. Thousands of apps on the App Store approved by Apple accept direct payments, including commonly used apps like Amazon, Grubhub, Nike SNKRS, Best Buy, DoorDash, Fandango, McDonalds, Uber, Lyft, and StubHub. We think all developers should be free to support direct payments in all apps. [0]

All of these services provide something physical. You can't buy Kindle Books, for example, on Amazon's app on iOS. This a bit disingenuous.

>We think all developers should be free to support direct payments in all apps.

Does this mean Epic will start allowing users of the Epic Games Store on PC to directly pay game developers and bypass the EGS cut?

[0] https://www.epicgames.com/site/en-US/fortnite-mega-drop-faq

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> Does this mean Epic will start allowing users of the Epic Games Store on PC to directly pay game developers and bypass the EGS cut?

If you follow Tim Sweeney and Epic's history surrounding "app store cuts", you'd know that they've always stood on the side of developers. The EGS stands among the lowest app store cuts of any marketplace, at 12%, and Tim has become visibly angry during public appearances concerning Apple, Google, etc and their 30% cut.

Additionally, we're talking about a platform that disallows any alternative installation and distribution mechanisms. The PC ecosystem is vibrant, unlike the forced one-app-store on iOS and the defacto-one-app-store on Android. If a developer wants to control their cut on Windows, they can sell via their own site, or itch.io (which allows developers to select what percentage itch.io receives), or Steam and their 30% cut, or wherever they'd like.

“ The EGS stands among the lowest app store cuts of any marketplace, at 12%, and Tim has become visibly angry during public appearances concerning Apple, Google, etc and their 30% cut.”

Lmfao at claiming that much moral superiority over a 2xish difference. I’m sure hes become visibly angry, John Legere was a character too, it’s a show.

"Is what's good for the (Apple) goose good for the (Epic Games Store) gander?"

"No, but we'll screw you for less than Steam."

12% may be less than 30%, but it's still the same business practice that they're decrying when it's applied to them. That's hypocrisy.

What business practice is that? Providing hosting, distribution, payment processing, and marketing to an audience of millions of customers, then asking for some amount of revenue in return?

The core issues at play with Apple have always been: (1) there's no competition, and (2) 30% is too high. The EGS makes strides in fixing both of these issues: Game developers are not forced to release on EGS, as there are a dozen competitors on Windows, and the revenue share is now 12%. Epic does sign exclusivity deals with third-parties, which often have multi-million dollar values to them (they paid ~$10M to Remedy for one-year exclusive rights to Control); again, while we can argue about the negative impact this has on consumers, its very positive for developers.

> All of these services provide something physical. You can't buy Kindle Books, for example, on Amazon's app on iOS. This a bit disingenuous.

I don't see how it's disingenuous, the question was "are these purchases less safe". They said "No, and here are some examples".

Whether the item is physical or not, I don't see how it makes the transaction "less safe"?

Physical goods need to be shipped somewhere that a thief can receive them. Digital goods don’t. That makes it much easier and safer to make fraudulent purchases for digital goods.

Yes, and that is a valid point if you are a thief who is looking to buy something. Ie, the cardholder is not the one making the purchase.

But if you are a valid consumer, making a valid purchase with your card, the purchase being fraudulent is not the concern.

The "safety" implication is that any company that is not Apple will lose your payment information, or your payment info will be intercepted, etc.

There are many companies who are perfectly capable of handling PCI that are not Apple.

It's maybe my perception, but I don't know if 'is this cheaper form of payment directly to you less safe?' is a question many users would be having. To me anyway, it seems like an excuse to namedrop a bunch of services where direct payment is offered (again, primarily for physical goods) so users can have a list of these in their mind provided Apple cracks down on this.

That's totally possible. At the same time Apple has been pushing "We have to protect our customers, that is why everything must go through the App Store" as a reason for their policies for years.

That argument definitely implies that non-App Store methods are unsafe.

> Does this mean Epic will start allowing users of the Epic Games Store on PC to directly pay game developers and bypass the EGS cut?

AFAIK they've already been allowing use of other payment processors for in-app purchases since last year, and are not taking any cut from those sales. They did actually put their money where their mouth is, on this one.

> Does this mean Epic will start allowing users of the Epic Games Store on PC to directly pay game developers and bypass the EGS cut?

Are you asking whether Epic will start "allowing" people to buy PC games via direct purchase or steam or twitch or GOG the way they've been doing for decades?

No, I'm asking if they will allow people to buy digital PC titles on EGS via direct purchase to the developer and bypass the percentage EGS takes. People are bringing up digital currency or IAP, but if Epic is arguing for 'direct payments in all apps', why would this be limited solely to digital currency and not the digital item itself?

Because then Apple would have to implement alternative payment methods into the App Store, which seems unreasonable. They're arguing that inside the app it's the developer's responsibility to handle payments however they see fit.

The point is that they're not applying that argument to their own storefront.

The difference is that you’re free to buy your game via another channel on pc. Epic is not free to distribute via another channel on iOS.

I don't follow this. Why would they have to implement alternative payment methods in the stpre? An app can create their own payment method within the app itself.

> I'm asking if they will allow people to buy digital PC titles on EGS via direct purchase to the developer

People can already buy PC titles anywhere they like. EGS, direct purchase, steam, GOG, twitch, whatever. There's nothing to allow.

>People can already buy PC titles anywhere they like. EGS, direct purchase, steam, GOG, twitch, whatever. There's nothing to allow.

This is unrelated to them supporting their 'direct pay to developers' stance on their own storefront. And no, people can't 'buy PC titles anywhere they like' as every game is not multiplatform / storefront.

> This is unrelated to them supporting their 'direct pay to developers' stance on their own storefront.

Then they already do what you're asking for. Games on EGS can have direct payments and EGS doesn't take a cut.

> And no, people can't 'buy PC titles anywhere they like' as every game is not multiplatform / storefront.

People can buy PC titles anywhere the developer chooses to sell them. Kind of assumed that last bit went without saying.

> No, I'm asking if they will allow people to buy digital PC titles on EGS via direct purchase to the developer and bypass the percentage EGS takes.

And why would Epic do that? Apple doesn't allow you to buy apps on the app store without the cut. Epic is not advocating that. Nobody is advocating that. Rather, Epic is allowing in-app purchases in their app without giving apple a cut.

The question would be, when you sell a game on EGS, can you allow in app purchases outside of EGS? Does somebody know the answer to this?

Yeah I don't get their point, developers can already go and release the game on their own website or through whatever channels they want without issue. If they sign an exclusivity deal with Epic that is their own choice, they were not forced to make that choice like on the Apple platform. EGS also charges a lot less than their competitors do anyway.

Epic doesn't take a cut of virtual currency bought on games in their store. Your comparison doesn't make sense.

Fandango does not provide physical goods. You can buy movies (not just tickets) on Fandango.

Maybe you're thinking of FandangoNOW? AFAIK Fandango does not let you 'buy movies'.

FandangoNow was once part of the Fandango app before they broke it out (at least on Android).

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