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Comment by tyingq | Hacker News Reader

Aside from the pressure from AMD, I think there's another force at play here.

There are quite a lot of people now that just use a web browser on their desktop or laptop. For them, a 5 year old (or older?) CPU is good enough that they don't know they are missing anything. Especially if they have enough memory and an SSD.

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> There are quite a lot of people now that just use a web browser on their desktop or laptop.

As opposed to the people who used to use their computer for email and spread sheets?

I would argue that the resource needs of a web browser has absolutely been increasing over time. The 4GB of RAM in that old laptop just does not work for the modern web. And considering how many web site now require the client to run tons and tons of JS just to work, I can see a need to refresh your CPU regularly.

4GB of RAM on a machine (regardless of OS) is absolutely fine for browsing the "modern web".

That is the opposite of what I see on a daily basis managing several 100+ SMB Windows based computer networks. I'm curious what your summary is to back up 4GB being absolutely fine.

> Windows

There's your problem!

Windows alone uses like 2GB, open some tabs and you are already out of ram. I think 8 is the new minimum.

I have 30 tabs open in Chrome, real tabs, on youtube, PDFs, and code/API docs, and I just cycled through them all to make sure they are loaded, and Chrome is at 600MB.

The phase "open some tabs and you are already out of ram" is a bit of an exaggeration.

Maybe, if you have only one tab open

Spreadsheets and some other business software can get really gnarly though (especially on RAM usage). Outlook itself can be quite heavy.

But I also agree, browsers and web apps aren't exactly lightweight either. Maybe WASM adoption can help on this front?

I don't believe I claimed that 4GB RAM was enough. Just that a 5 year old (and perhaps older) CPU was good enough.

I mentioned web browser usage as opposed to more demanding loads like gaming, content creation, software development, multiple office tools being used at the same time alongside the browser, etc.

> The 4GB of RAM in that old laptop just does not work for the modern web

Completely false, I'm on 4GB RAM and Q9300. I haven't had any issues. 99% of websites run smooth. I even code on this machine. See my comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24145436

EDIT: I have 10 tabs open right now in Firefox. From bbc.com, HackerNews, and Zillow. I also have AnyDesk, Slack, Signal, VSCode, and a couple of other programs open right now. No performance issues.

EDIT2: I opened up Chrome with Youtube in addition to the above, here's proof everything is still doing well: https://imgur.com/a/SlxT4yE

EDIT3: Ok now i'm just having fun. I added a Netflix tab to Chrome. Opened up a big project in VSCode. Added Vivaldi browser, Notepad++. It stuttered a little (5-10s) loading up the programs but once they were up, it's fine again: https://imgur.com/a/BNqPKU9

If only 4GB of RAM would suffice on my Windows 10 SOE. That thing has 20GB of RAM And a 2018 i5 and still struggles. MS SCCM and all the other 'protection' destroys any ability to be productive.

I think you can argue that may be caused by performance stagnation. When the CPU market is not advancing in performance, software is not going to advance in computational requirements.

You can see a counter-example in mobile phones. Their processors are continuing to make considerable strides in power-constrained performance, and 2-3 year old phones regularly wind up getting perceptually slower as the software advances in performance requirements.

Software tends to fill the space it lives in. I have seen websites that are more taxing on my CPU than video games.

> There are quite a lot of people now that just use a web browser on their desktop or laptop. For them, a 5 year old (or older?) CPU is good enough that they don't know they are missing anything. Especially if they have enough memory and an SSD.

My 2015 laptop is still more than capable of doing .net development, or I should say, was when I last tried in 2019.

At work I've got a 2015 macbook pro and it's also more than enough for devops (namely, terraform, docker and the odd script in bash or python)

I should add that neither feel sluggish though no doubt new kit would be faster

Checking in. My main desktop - which is the machine I use 95% of the time for personal use (other than my phone) - is a Q9300 w/ 4GB of RAM. It's about 13 years old. I use it mostly for browsing and coding w/ VS Code; both of which it's still perfectly good at doing. I game on the PS4, so I haven't needed to upgrade my desktop in a long time. That said, I've been eyeing VR-ready desktops for the last couple of years, but those graphics card prices are hard to justify.

I have several laptops that are newer (within the last 2-5 years), but they're used primarily by my kids or for work.

Yeah this absolutely makes a huge difference. The upgrade cycle for laptops and desktops has gotten long. When things have been slow for me at least it almost always memory bound and not cpu bound at this point as well.

I built a desktop rig for my dad back in 2013 with an i3-3220. Seven years later it still works just fine for his needs. The only thing I changed over the years was to add a bit more RAM. I don't plan on updating it unless the CPU/mobo dies.

Yeah - it's great. I'm rocking a 2008 Nehalem at home, having since doubled the memory to 12GB, upgraded the GPU and replaced a failed PSU. It runs like a champ and my non-techie friends think I'm kidding when I say it's more than 10 years old.

It’s because an equally priced 2020 intel cpu is at most twice as fast as your Nehalem (now you can get a 6core for the same money you got your 4core). Per core performance improvement is not even close to twice as fast.

I agree that most computing can be done easily with 5 year old hardware, or 10 or 15 if you pick your software carefully.

But I do know that whenever my 2019 mbp is heating up, it's more likely than not to be the browser (with a rogue tab).

I have no issues using my 2013 Macbook Pro for 95% of the tasks. For everything else I can run it on cloud. This is also why older Macbooks retain value with a solid price floor even after seven years.

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