Mon Valley communities test “time credits”, a new form of currency
wesa.fm
wesa.fm
It didn't work very well. People with valuable skills were generally not willing to offer them, and instead people would offer to do only fun things. So you would see lots of unmatched requests for things that required specific skills (legal, taxes, plumbing, computers) or difficult work (carrying heavy things, babysitting), and lots of offers for amateur interior decorating advice etc.
Additionally, everyone who signed up started with 10 hours in the bank, effectively printing money, which made it even more unbalanced.
Which reminds me of the excellent 1977 Sweeney and Sweeney econ paper about the Capital Hill Babysitting Coop: http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/cs286r/courses/fall09/papers/coo...
At least in Germany, you can't "pre-donate", i.e. work to a charity and claim it as a donation. You'll have to agree on a price and the charity has to be able to compensate you and after everything is done, you can choose to not take their money. I'm not sure whether the third party in the transaction changes anything.
So there was forgery.
Of course, in such a small community, it was immediately obvious who had done it, so people stopped being available to babysit their kids.
0: http://www.lagonette.org 1: http://www.lagonette.org/la-liste-des-partenaires/
So VAT must be paid in euro for purchases in the local currency? I am wondering how this eventually works out, especially the day when selling your local currency into euros is not anymore possible or pegged 1:1, while VAT must still be paid in euro.
http://www.lagonette.org/une-monnaie-locale-et-complementair...
"Les échanges de services non-monétaires, promus par les réseaux de monnaies complémentaires (banque de temps, réseau d’échanges réciproques de savoirs, SEL – Système d’échanges Locaux, etc.) relèvent d’une activité ponctuelle, d’un coup de main. Ils n’entrent pas dans le cadre d’une profession et sont exonérées de TVA et d’impôts.
This very much looks like VAT or other tax evasion scheme. Maybe users of the currency should realize the associated risks.
If the government shuts it down for fraud, it will be difficult to convert the local currency back to euros and the claim that is pegged 1:1 to the Euro might be be correct after all.
As I understand from their site, while you can trade euros for the local currency at a rate of 1:1, you cannot trade your local currency for euros.
They have a FAQ [0] (in French, sorry) that states that the national financial autorities do not allow for you to exchange your local currency for euros. What’s more, if you pay for something in the local currency you cannot receive change in euros - the vendor needs to give you change in the local currency, too.
It sort of seems like once you ‘buy’ your local currency, you can spend it but you can never trade it for euros again. The peg of the currency to the euro 1:1 seems to be convenient more than a tax dodge, but I have never used it personally.
However for someone like me whose time is credited more than most by the employment system it seems like it would be a losing proposition to do things for time credits instead of money.
However, I really don't know how viable this scheme would be on a bigger level. Eventually, this hopeful and admirable attempt faces the problems outlined in the article: landlords don't want time credits, banks don't want them, the government doesn't want them. So it's a risk of giving up your privilege of earning well that might leave you with nothing eventually.
...It'll turn into an even bigger scam than cryptocurrencies, but the idea seems interesting...
Perhaps I don't really understand the value of not being able to convert them.
It's essentially a way to get more work done. It doesn't work if the network is so large that people lose that incentive.
The question is, is there a way to scale this to the whole world by building a global network composed of local networks?
In the end, this only works if you accept that investing in your local community is more important than saving a few minutes or dollars sending your work-hours-in-the-form-of-dollars to some far-flung exec's pocket. Some people are so well remunerated by the traditional system that I suppose they don't really have to care about all that.
Yeah but lots of people's times are theoretically worth more with this than with traditional currency was what I was getting at - anybody whose job is undervalued by companies but who can turn their skills to the benefit of others can earn more valuable time credits than they could earn money.
For example a janitor might have the handyman skills to build some IKEA furniture for you and earn more in the way of time credits than they would in money from their normal employment, without having to go through all the work they would have to become a handyman as a job or small business.
When you start offering a reward, the human brain starts playing a comparative game. Instead of "I'm helping someone because I think it's the right thing to do" your brain starts doing the "I'm helping someone because I want a $25 gift card" etc. Wikipedia lists this as the Overjustificatioon effect[^1]
To be fair to the original article, I think the intent wasn't to reward volunteers but to instead create a local closed market that might help an economically depressed area.
[^1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overjustification_effect
So there's a useful idea out there called the 8 Forms of Capital: https://www.google.com/search?q=8+forms+of+capital
The idea is roughly lets use the language and methodology of "capital" to look at all the non-"net-worth"-ey things that makes us human.
So your "net worth" is the sum of your 1) Financial Capital (bank account) and 2) Material Capital (house and "stuff").
But that's only 2/8. When you hear about people who live in luxury highrises and work 12 hours a day at McKinsBcgBain but are too drained when they come home to do anything other than order takeout and pass out watching netflix only to pop a xanax and do it all again the next morning, that's being wealthy in Financial and Material Capital but poor in everything else.
The idea of these community tokens isn't to price your time as Financial capital, but rather price it into something like 3) Social Capital (the relationships you have with others) or, maybe, 4) Cultural Capital (all the ideas and bonds that constitute a community identity). Do others interact with you purely transactionally, or do they rely on you as you rely on them? Do you feel like you're part of a neighborhood, or just renting space one 12-month lease at a time?
So basically, your time can be priced in salary-dollars or it can be priced in community-bonds. Your time may command a high salary-dollar price, but what kind of social- and community-dollar price do you command?
https://www.routledge.com/A-Global-History-of-Co-operative-B...
There are lots of examples of co-operatives that use a currency of their own, the more idealistic ones did time based currencies because it was a proxy for equal pay for equal work. Communities tended to adopt their own to keep money circulating locally.
https://www.google.com/search?q=define+new
This is new for this community. It could be new for your community too.
> Instead of using paper money, a new economic system uses time as currency
Contrast that with today, where we can buy computers for $1000 that took millions of worker-hours to design and build. So in away, our $15 is worth something like $15,000 to them. Or more precisely, their day's work on the farm would produce 1/1000 of today's wages, maybe 30 cents or something comparable. Enough to buy some eggs or beer if they were lucky.
What gets me though is that most of us have a quality of life higher than royalty enjoyed then. Yet most of us spend our entire lives underemployed, doing work of little importance, still making someone else rich. The sacrifice of our daily life should cost us 1/1000 what it did then, but it still costs us the same. What good is more buying power if you hate your job, today is the worst day of your life, and tomorrow will be even worse? But hey, at least you have a flat screen.
I think that's why the concept of barter can feel attractive, because if everyone has a relatively comparable work output, then an hour spent doing something we enjoy (say baking or whatnot) can be exchanged for something we might find miserable but someone else might enjoy (like giving a massage). Whereas with cash, an hour baking might be worth $7, but an hour massage is worth $60.
The divergence between the free market value of something, and its toll in human suffering, is the primary cause of most conflict in the world today IMHO. That gap is why some of us are punished so much more for the work we do, and why so many of us don't get to do the work we'd like to do. We all just run the rat race and compete with the joneses until we're put out to pasture. I've found no solution to this yet in my own life, so I'm curious to hear others' experiences.
A large part of why I find these ideas interesting is related to the legal system used by the Romani [2],where failure to comply with the rules set forward results in exile. Because of their reliance on community, members are incentivized to follow the rules because exile would be incredibly detrimental to an individual's livelihood. I feel as though time credits work on a similar principle: that your efforts will be recognized in your community, but a lack of good faith will result in those time credits being worthless.
[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time-based_currency
[2] https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/11/13/book-review-legal-syst...
You can't get around money, at least not as a large scale economic system.
> Date of introduction
> November 1991
The former scheme is hard because time, as the Ithaca HOURS currency experiment shows, isn't exactly fungible in the same way that money is. Being able to redeem 'an hour' assumes that all people can do the same level of work at all tasks.
The latter, however, requires a different way of thinking about pricing.
For instance, service providers might set their rates as multiples of one's hourly wage: a tennis teacher might charge 1x, a pro-tennis teacher might charge 3x, and a low-income psychotherapist might charge .85x... Such a scheme could work with a sufficient number of clients -- essentially one is sampling from the income distribution -- but the system is more equitable to income differences.
From this point, one can think of more complex schemes, like a non-linear mapping function that can prevent high-income individuals for paying drastically more than others.
Yes, one big issue is one of trust and verification of income... but if it were a culturally accepted practice, it could work. The other issue is the incentive to only target high-income people. Perhaps there could be a set of tax breaks for those whose distribution of client's incomes met some basic requirements.
As part of a program run by Neighbors Helping Neighbors and involveMINT, the Rankin native earns "time credits" for her service."
Surely if people can trade these “tokens” for goods or other services, then they’re money?
You limit yourself in some ways if you consider state money to be the only money. It ties you to your state: which is OK when you agree with your state, but sucks when you don’t. It ties you to the state’s economy (the problem these novel/local currencies attempt to solve). It ties you into statecraft, international relations, and the horror show that is global currency exchange. It invites the state into every transaction you make. It invokes your state’s monopoly on violence, with every transaction you make.
All these have their uses, but they are also a burden sometimes.
I really like this idea of businesses accepting different types of currencies to encourage specific types of work like charity, volunteering, good grades for kids.
1. Medium of exchange; this is what you're referring to as "the whole point of currency". But don't forget about:
2. Unit of account; Something that allows you to compare "apples to oranges" so to speak, a common denominator.
3. Store of value; Some people choose to consume what's due to them up front, others choose to "hoard" for later (nothing wrong with that, IMO), most spread their consumption evenly over their life more or less. If we were all trading chicken eggs and babysitting hours amongst ourselves this would be a lot harder.
It's apparent that maybe we should have hoarded a little bit, as individuals and institutions everywhere are reeling from the damage covid has wrought on the world economy.
I find this idea interesting. Since the brain uses around 20 percent...
I mean, if you define an executive order seizing money as a "market failure", sure.
Or conversely, FDR didn't know what he was doing and Gresham's law always applies.
Basically I think this would be the best way to turn back the changes best described in the book "Fear City: New York's Fiscal Crisis and the Rise of Austerity Politics".
Economic reason:
Some of cost disease of social services like the ones that were cut relates to the subsidizing of suburban America, and I think local currency with reduced purchasing power in the suburbs would help avoid that.
Political reason:
The structure of American governance gives non-urban areas disproportionate power, due to a variety of mechanisms. Yet cities are more inherently more productive and the engine of the economy. Granting a major city the power of semi-autonomous monetary and fiscal policy will give it more power to counter balance this.
For similar reasons I think EU should go back to local currencies, but rather than getting rid of the euro could have both.