Hacker News Reader

Comment by flictonic | Hacker News Reader

Strength training is extremely hard to do without equipment. It's a common misconception that body weight or minimal equipment is an adequate substitute. Iron Wolf is not strength training, it's endurance. I'm not knocking him, it looks like a great workout, but any intermediate barbell lifter will lose strength and size on this workout. There's simply no substitute for heavy compound barbell movements.

View on HN

I guess it depends on what you mean by strength. For body building/size, yeah for sure you need weights. You can do a ton with some rings and p-bars along with your own body weight though (and maybe a kettlebell or two). I personally don’t care about size or external looks, that’s not what I practice for, but you certainly can get strong without weights. I’m sure a lot of people that can lift heavy can’t do a planche, they’re just totally different body goals and both require strength.

Strength is force production. Your muscles twitch and produce force to moves your bones which moves an external mass. Your body adapts to this external resistance by "over-compensating". This time you lift 100lbs, next time you can lift 105lbs because your muscles adapted (provided you slept, ate and rested well enough). Now, if you are not used to strength training, push ups are strength training exercises (your body being the external resistance against gravity). If you already lift, push ups won't improve your strength in any meaningful way. it's probably harder the first time you do it even though you've been barbell training, but the novelty quickly runs out and you're doing endurance now (different energy system in play).

Is this better than sitting on the couch whole day? Yeah probably better. But strength is not size and esthetics. It's force production against an external resistance. big does not equal strong.

For sure, strength is force production and that’s how training and muscle growth works. I agree. But again it depends on what external act you’re doing that defines where in your body that strength needs to be produced. If that is lifting a heavy thing over your head, then yeah working on those movements with weights is a good way to get there. If it’s doing any sort of gymnastic or martial art movement, then weights can help in some circumstances, but they’re not necessary. Mike Tyson never touched weights until his comeback (aside from maybe doing shoulder shrugs) and I’m not sure anyone would say he wasn’t strong or didn’t have strength in the 80s.

Calisthenics are definitely hard to program, but you can build a huge amount of body strength without weights. “Overcoming Gravity” is a great book if you’re ever looking to program body weight movements. This isn’t a knock on lifting weights, weight training is great and everyone should do it. It’s just that strength is in relation to something else, and that something else is what dictates what sort of practice you should be programming. Building an extreme amount of strength doesn’t need to include a weight if you’re clever about it.

The amount you lose when training at BW is considerably less than not training at all - studies show retention of size for months and months - and in a pinch I absolutely would go for a program that emphasizes bridges and planks and hanging. As for the rest - training goals can be multidimensional and this influences the optimal methods a lot. Training for martial arts, for example, tends to mean training for overall coordination and mobility, as well as strength and stamina. Judo players, MMA players, they can be strong, they can benefit from weights, but they aren't bodybuilders or powerlifters or strongman competitors. Eddie Hall, a strongman champion, has been covering his training for a boxing match on his YT channel, and while he does still do his presses and squats, he's slimmed down a ton.

There is an argument around calisthenics having too many compound movements and gaps in difficulty progression, which makes it hard to overcome specific bottlenecks. But what calisthenics absolutely is great at is mobility and CNS engagement. Combine calisthenics with a yoga mat and doorframe bar with bands training to add more granular progression and isolations, and you have some really good overall coverage with minimum equipment.

NB: One major reason we have historically seen more material about weights than bands is that it's easier to compare weight progression apples-to-apples. Bands change difficulty with slight changes in grip position, hence results are harder to compare.

Before the pandemic I definitely would agree with this. I was doing a meathead lifting routine and BJJ 6x a week and was fairly strong. When everything shut down I started doing door pull-ups and Dylan Werner’s True Strength series and could not finish a single workout without stopping or cheating. 4 or 5 months later the gyms open up and I’m at least as strong if not stronger than I was before.

I'm a bit lucky that I bought a barbell, squat rack and bench 2 years ago trying to save on gym fees.

I can't imagine what my fellow strength trainers are doing.

Tons of push up, pull ups, squats with a 50lb bag of rice and picking up a 50lb bag of rice, losing 15% of body weight and crying.

Also waiting. Lots of waiting. Hopefully I'll get my rack, barbell and weights this month.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com