[0] https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtm...
[1] https://www.engadget.com/2019/12/30/uber-and-postmates-sue-c...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Assembly_Bill_5_(20...
[0] https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtm...
[1] https://www.engadget.com/2019/12/30/uber-and-postmates-sue-c...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Assembly_Bill_5_(20...
EDIT: by benefits, I'm was intending to refer to health insurance
I don't know that this is something I can agree with. Benefits as value-adds from employers stems from what's effectively collective bargaining power. This is the thing most people can't articulate about their desire for benefits tied to employment - they know how much more expensive it'll be for individuals to negotiate the same rates regardless of how much more they might make directly.
I think he was referring to public health care systems. Dependence on employers for access to healthcare is the opposite of collective bargaining power. Every year, half a million Americans [1] file for bankruptcy due to medical issues. It's a lot easier to quit or switch your job when your family's financial future is not on the line.
[1] https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/11/this-is-the-real-reason-most...
Times have changed. People don't want stable jobs anymore. That's why the industries where workers have a modicum of power (law, medicine, finance, tech) are dominated by "flexible" work schedules.
Talk to an Uber driver. If they aren't scared that you are a spy from corporate, they will tell you what they really think.
The ability to earn some money with zero notice is awesome. The minute you start requiring contracts and working hours, and qualifications, and exclusivity, it has suddenly made life dull. Suddenly you're a drone wearing a suit working 9-5 for 50 years then retiring when you're too old to fulfil your dreams. No thanks!
It really saved me back then, and if somebody had tried to tell me that they wanted to prohibit me from doing that, because the work I was doing didn’t meet their standards, I would have told them to take a hike. What happens when you try to forcibly impose those standards isn’t that everybody’s working conditions/arrangements magically improve. What happens is the price of labor goes up, the demand for labor goes down, and you end up taking work away from people that were happy to do it, and leaving them with no work at all.
As far as I can tell, no one is talking about prohibiting temporary contract work.
What most people seem to be saying is, you shouldn't be able to pretend that people are temporary contract workers when they really aren't.
Do you think that:
(a) It is self-evident that Uber and Walmart workers are reasonably compensated, because they agreed to their wages in a market transaction; or
(b) There are structural forces that compel Uber and Walmart workers to capture as income an unreasonably low fraction of the benefit they provide the market; or
(c) Something else
Your point b also invokes that reasonableness opinion, but makes a further mistake of presuming that remuneration is determined by value provided (by whatever metric it is that you think that should be judged). Wages are set by supply and demand, for a price to be high there needs to be more people wanting to buy something than there is people wanting to sell it. That is why unskilled labor is worth so little. It’s also why oxygen (incredibly valuable) is free, and why some bureaucrats (incredibly not valuable) can end up being paid quite a lot.
But you’re right. That is not a relevant question. What you’re talking about is taking jobs away from people, and replacing them with nothing.
The anti-contractor laws don’t just affect low paid jobs either. Which is why every Vox journalist in California was so surprised to see themselves laid off after AB5 passed. Thankfully I don’t live in a jurisdiction that’s considering such legislation, but if I did, I would leave. I’ve been on an endlessly revolving short term contract with the same organisation for nearly 3 years now. They would love it if I didn’t have the option to contract, because I earn at least 3x what an equivalent permanent team member would. I’m sure they would be very grateful if somebody were to prohibit me from engaging in such an arrangement with them.
>They would love it if I didn’t have the option to contract, because I earn at least 3x what an equivalent permanent team member would. //
Who is suggesting you can't contract work? If the law stated that contract workers total pay could not be less than the gross business cost of employee workers (+ a percentage?) would that somehow affect you negatively?
That aside: You're seriously going to argue people who can't afford basic healthcare shouldn't be helped financially because you might lose your 3x good income (~$300,000 would be triple the median California programmers wage, apparently)?
Of course people would choose a stable, easier, and better paying job opposed to gig work. That job doesn't exist for everyone.
They give them flextime because (a) it costs them nothing (b) it has no impact on the quality of the work done (c) flextime workers are just as if not more likely to overwork and (d) it costs them nothing.
Read that as "grueling". I take that's what you meant.
Citation needed; while I do agree / believe that people want more flexibility in their work (choose how many hours / week, when, etc to work around things like child care, avoid traffic, etc), they still want stability. People (read: I) want a max 5 day / week, max 40 hour / week contract that covers cost of living + luxuries, not a "maybe you'll do 10 hours this week, we'll let you know when you can come in" kinda deal.
The gig economy is telling people that their income depends on how much rides they do, basically forcing them to work 12+ hour, 7 day work weeks to make ends meet. You can claim that's their choice, but if a 'regular' work week doesn't cover the cost, it's not a feasible job.
The gig economy is an extension of what seemed to become the new norm in the US, working multiple jobs to make ends meet. This should not be necessary. If a 40 hour work week is not enough, wages are too low and / or cost of living is too high.
It's entirely possible to break down the different pros/cons of each type of employment and repackage them. It's really just about whether that should happen and what should/shouldn't be included. Flexibility and the option to choose when they will work is pretty core to these types of jobs. What would be traded away to make that happen?
Most tech companies give stock / options so there is some connection.
I agree with this, just think it's missing important context. People don't want "stable jobs" because nominally "stable" jobs are anything but stable anymore and most of the other benefits have been eroded.
Income stability benefits workers, because when their income is stable (same amount in each paycheck, paychecks in regular intervals) it is much easier to make a budget. There is less worry about, "Will I get enough hours this week to pay my rent?"
Process stability often benefits employers over workers, but sometimes it doesn't benefit either employers or workers. Flexible schedules are generally an acknowledgment by employers that they're not losing much (and may even see productivity gains) by allowing workers to have some wiggle room in their hours -- but workers gain a lot from this flexibility.
Whoa whoa whoa. Whoa.
That's a heck of a generalisation.
Sure they do.
> That's why the industries where workers have a modicum of power (law, medicine, finance, tech) are dominated by "flexible" work schedules.
Flexible work schedules and stable jobs are orthogonal concerns. Flexible work schedule is “employee has some freedom to set working schedule without adverse consequence”, stable job is “employee has relative security against loss of income, benefits, and employment”.
People absolutely still want stable jobs (though they are much harder to find), whether or not they also want flexible work schedules.
What has changed is that traditional employment in the private sector isn't nearly as secure as it used to be, which makes the gig-work vs. traditional employment calculus favor the former more than it would have in the past, since the choice is between insecure work without flexibility and slightly more insecure work with flexibility, rather than secure work without flexibility and unsecure work with flexibility.
Also, for many, it's the choice between no work and insecure work, and whether or not people want stable work, they definitely are compelled by our economic system to generally prefer some work over no work.