Similar to how Russia murders defectors [0], it’s not a good idea to be an expat and criticize China. It is an authoritarian regime, bottom line.
[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Alexander_Litvi...
[1] https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2019/08/30/hong-kong-activist...
[2] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/26/us/hong-kong-protests-col...
Not when your Education system is literal State propaganda and they deny access to the Internet due to the specific fear of subversive acts, also known as: personal research.
It's one thing to hold an opinion and argue from that POV in honest discourse, its quite another to be operating and rewarded for your loyalty to the State and be monitored and possibly dissapeared if you deviate from this path. This is the same type of Human Conditioning seen during the Soviet Union, which I think can be universally understood to be a negative thing.
Many people in Hong Kong feel as though they've been forgotten by the International Community, the Umbrella Revolution/Yellow Movement was trying to oppose this since 2014, and it mainly went unnoticed other than some sound bites about violent protests, and not much else was understood beyond that.
When what should have been the real focus was the ever increasing Hegemony that was being built by the CCP that could essentially become so seemingly 'indispensable' to those addicted to its cheap labour/manufacturing that it could commit literal Crimes Against Humanity out in the open, lie and cover up International Pandemics that have cost untold Lives and Suffering several times (SARS as well as COVID), and still make People question if it's 'worth' decoupling from China.
That was my biggest fear all along, as I knew Hong Kong (the city) would eventually be returned to China. We stand at a critcal point as a Species on how we Live on Earth and I really want to maintain faith that Humanity can come to the most reasonable albeit difficult conclusion that this cannot continue, but its statements and sentiment like that that make me wonder just how detached people have become to this cancerous threat model. And if they can even muster the ability to be inconvenienced enough to actually see it for what it is instead of detaching into some perpetual self0induced distraction, often viewed from their Chinese made device.
I know people who emigrated from Taiwan before marital law was finally lifted and they were also terrified, even in the US, of criticizing Chiang Kai-Shek. I was told that there were minders on the streets in Taiwan and you might just disappear if they heard you complaining.
(This reads as a criticism and almost a "well, aktshually" kind of a post, but I truly don't intend it as such. If anything, it's a stronger warning to Chinese ex-pats: be very careful what you say because the regime's tentacles are numerous and reach far. Not that Chinese citizens don't already know that, though.)
Interpret these how you wish, because they are interpreting these how they wish.
Back when it was the 1 child policy, only the Han had to follow it. The Uighurs and other minorities did not.
Now, everyone has to follow the 2 child policy.
>> Interpret these how you wish, because they are interpreting these how they wish.
> How does force sterilizing of Uighurs fit into a common destiny?
I believe the "common destiny" the GP was referring to is living under the control of the CCP.
While the policy doesn’t exist anymore, it’s not about the policy, but who has the right to decide whether you’re allowed to have children.
For example, Julian Assange, Kim Dotcom, and Richard O'Dwyer were all prosecuted for crimes committed outside the US.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/01/china/hong-kong-activists-arr...
R.I.P Westphalian sovereignty
> R.I.P Westphalian sovereignty
This reminds me of our arrest (well, Canada's arrest at our demand) of Meng Wanzhou.
>"Trudeau also rejected the idea of a prisoner swap for Meng Wanzhou — eldest daughter of Huawei’s billionaire founder Ren Zhengfei — saying an exchange would “demonstrate to China that they can just arrest Canadians and get what they want out of Canada.” "
Calling it "bank fraud" is just a way of avoiding the question of what she did that was wrong. Who's arresting Anish Kapoor and his co-conspirators for committing fraud against Stuart Semple?
It's not like she was simply on vacation buying tourist kitsch in Tehran or selling Hwawei equipment to Iranian companies. I believe the allegation is that both the equipment export and the payment sides of the transactions touched US soil and violated US law.
The validity of the iran embargo does not play a lot into this.
USA arrests, say Islamic terrorists, for conduct that occurred outside USA. If you incite acts against USA you will get charged no matter where you are.
The russian who ran an african "security" company, just before Erik Prince started his post-Blackwater african project, was arrested in thailand and sent to the US.
(This is probably a good place to remind any HK'ers with piles of the ready, who have not already invested in Vancouver, that Subic Bay is no longer a US naval base, but instead offers condos and a yacht harbour, all within cruising distance of HK.)
Before handover, HK police would come in pairs, with at least one english and one cantonese speaker. My (very pale and blonde) friend's hobby was to approach the cantonese speaking cop, who would gesticulate wildly pointing at their partner ... and ask a question in decent cantonese.
The only thing I want to do is point out that Russia has a nearly undeniable record of assassinating dissenters such as Alexander Litvinenko and Sergei/Yulia Skripal in the United Kingdom. China does not yet share this record with Russia, so I feel that your statement coaxes people to interpret China as a murderer on the same level as Russia ("Similar to how Russia murders defectors, it's not a good idea to be an expat and criticize China"). This is an unfair equivalency and I want to point it out.
Look up Anna Politkovskaya (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Anna_Politkov...): She was a known critic of Putin and shot/murdered mysteriously. You can search on Google for Russian critics outside of Russia being killed, but as far as I publicly discern, this is not true for Chinese critics. I'm not saying that people haven't been killed for criticizing China overseas, but I will say that publicly you and I do not know of people who have been killed, unlike the obvious case for Russia. My strongest plausible interpretation is that you are saying that it could be the next step for China, and I would agree that it is a possibility.
In fact, if we really want to be exhaustive about overseas assassination of critics, there is Henry Liu who was assassinated in California for criticizing Taiwanese leader Chiang Kai-shek (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Liu#Confession_of_Chen_C...). If I want to start being concerned about China murdering people, it's not a massive leap of the imagination to believe that they are capable of doing it, but so far, many similar nation-states have done more than China in this regard, such as Taiwan. However, obviously I understand that Taiwan is a fairly different place now compared to 1984 when Henry was assassinated.
In order to be charitable to your comment, I can ask, "Can you explain more about what you mean?" We can argue that China might be murdering critics, but that would be in the case of stuff that happens within its borders, not outside of it. We can also arguably say that China is imposing measures on critics overseas such as economic punishments, but they do not appear to be murdering people. Therefore, I do not think your anecdote about Hong Kong immigrants being killed in the USA adds value to the discussion because it is unsubstantiated to believe that it will happen. I would say that it's believable that HK immigrants could feel threatened or be afraid of retaliation from China through other means, such as online harassment or attacks from the 50 Cent Party (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party)
Having said all that, I do not want to wait until it reaches the point where China can shamelessly kill people in cities across the globe. My reply to the parent comment is more to point out that our criticisms need to be healthy and balanced, lest the discussion devolves into massive leaps of unsubstantiated thought.
I've never really seen such personally. People occasionally petition the central government due to grievances, but those people are heavily monitored, strongly discouraged, and later suffer negative repercussions (I know one such individual personally).
There are occasionally protests regarding local issues: housing demolition, environmental problems. They are not allowed to persist. I've never seen these in person.
I used to very occasionally see graffiti critical of the government, but I don't think I've see such in 5+ years. I figure the omnipresence of the security cameras have discouraged this.
I once received a robocall from the Falun Gong critiquing the government. I also occasionally see Falun Gong messages stamped on paper currency.
That's about it. I'm curious about the specifics of the case(s) about which you've heard.
https://www.hrw.org/news/2008/08/13/china-police-detain-woul...
http://madmonarchist.blogspot.com/2011/11/enemy-of-monarchy-...
This obviously doesn't change the fact that the CPC at the time, like the CPC of today, is a dictatorial organization that should never be supported. But the quotes in your post very much play into the "evil conspiracy" angle, and I think it's important to tell history in a way that reflects the actual power dynamics instead of cloak-and-dagger tales.
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundred_Flowers_Campaign
> The fact that a lot of the criticism that was made by the citizens was considerably more fundamental than even Mao had expected eventually eroded Mao's position to the point where he was forced to back down.
IIRC, Mao expected the policy to bolster the regime and show how the people genuinely supported it. That didn't happen. Since the goal wasn't to actually let the people express alternative views, they cracked down hard.
I agree it probably wasn't "comic book evil conspiracy," but it's still a good illustration of how risky CCP offers of freedom of speech are.
I have not (over 20 years) had an open political conversation about the party in China and I would never ask my friends there to entertain it even in the US. There is no point. Even in the US I would only discuss US politics, although they often seemed to be effectively related.
I will say that one of the formative descriptions of Chinese history was in the summer palace next to a statue of an emperor (Ming?) who had commited suicide upon being overthrown... he was by account terrible at ruling so I asked why there was a ;large statue. The answer was that by killing himself and not forcing the soldiers to fight and mandarins to destroy records he had maintained stability. This may be apocryphal, but the stories people tell about themselves are very illuminating.
There is definitely a cultural barrier there, around what "politics" even means and the role it should play. Most Chinese people are very jaded in general, and consider all politics, in China and abroad, to be nothing but an expression of entrenched power. As a result, democracy is often seen as an unachievable ideal that also doesn't exist in the west, particularly not in the USA.
In effect, this also means that Westerner's questions about Chinese politics can appear nonsensical or even naive to Chinese people. This is also why people are more likely to talk about corruption, as that is an evil that is considered possible to fight against.
It's the same reason foreign businesses struggle so much in China. If you aren't friendly with the necessary bureaucrats and your Chinese competition is, you'll find yourself blockaded perpetually for the most bullshit reasons.
Oh good, so I'm free to speak my own opinion as long as I don't actually try to accomplish anything!
So would calling for the end of the Chinese one-party rule and democratic elections be considered 'really absurd'?