Comment by anonymousiam | Hacker News Reader

Comment by anonymousiam | Hacker News Reader

Maybe not exactly what the excerpt was getting at, but here's a variant: Instead of individuals using alcohol for this purpose, some fortune 500 companies use it too. At corporate "Team Building" offsite workshops, open bars are available to the sequestered employee groups. Those without the self control to abstain or exercise moderation are quickly identified as non-management material.

The excerpt also reminded me of an H. Ross Perot story that I cannot seem to find anywhere online. Someone had approached him for VC and had a sound business plan. The person had had issues with alcohol in the past, and had sworn off it. Perot had learned this (probably from a PI), and at the moment they were going to sign a business deal, Perot insisted on closing the deal with a drink. The other party explained that he did not drink, but Perot was absolutely insistent and would not close the deal without a drink. So the guy left without a deal. The next day, Perot called him and closed the deal. Perot had been testing the resolve and reliability of the guy. The venture was a success and became a Fortune 100 company.

It's really, really bad to encourage a sober alcoholic to drink. What if he'd fallen for it? Back to square one.

Well given we don't know if the story is true or the VCs intentions. Let's assume good faith and if the person offered the drink took it, then the VC would have stopped this person before they had a sip :)

and then told him to fuck off and that the deal is off, so he can go have a drink at home. it's not just about the physical act of drinking, by convincing that person, you have already broken down barriers inside them. fuck anyone who does this

Companys are sociopaths

Ross Perot is not a company.

So you are saying he was just a sociopath?

Ross Perot was literally being satanic.

In the most explicit biblical (and quranic) story of satan, he and god debate Job's loyalty to god. Satan tortures job, kills his wife and children, poisons his crops, his body... The point is to see if Job remains steadfast, always praising god no matter the pain. At the end of the story, god rewards job with a new family, farm and such.

In other stories, Satan tempts. The idea is the same, a sneaky test of piety. Rewards to the steadfast. Punishment for everyone else.

^First time I've used the term "literally" literally in a long time... literally.

> Those without the self control to abstain or exercise moderation are quickly identified as non-management material.

Why, exactly?

Is management about abstinence and moderation or is it about taking difficult decision in difficult times?

If someone takes decision on other's people careers based on what they do outside of work, that person is simply stupid.

> Perot had been testing the resolve and reliability of the guy

Or was he being a jerk?

>> Perot had been testing the resolve and reliability of the guy

> Or was he being a jerk?

Both can be true.

The off-site team-building events are not "outside of work". You are being paid for your presence and provided room and board at a company retreat. You are expected to be up, dressed, fed, and shaved (for men anyway) at 6:45am when things get rolling. Everyone knows this and is expected to be there (unless they are sick). If someone boozes it up the night before and is too hung over to show, it says something about their values (or lack thereof).

Perot was a real hard ass, but he was very successful with his investments.

> If someone boozes it up the night before and is too hung over to show

I was replying to " Those without the self control to abstain or exercise moderation are quickly identified as non-management material."

I will never be ready at 6:45 in the morning, I am not a morning person, but I'll be up at 4 am if needed to be, whereas some of my colleagues can't go past 11pm without falling asleep.

Management has nothing to do with what you do outside of work, which drinking with colleagues at the open bar is.

And why stop at alcohol then?

Does eating too much hamburgers at the BBQ counts?

Talking too much?

Being obsessed with fitness?

Playing too much at video games?

Where does it ends?

This comes off as crazy and abusive gaslighting behaviour to me. I understand that founders being somewhat narcissistic is almost cliché at this point but that is behaviour that no human should be proud of...

that's a real piece of shit move to pull on a recovering alcoholic

It's commonly reported H. Ross Perot didn't drink. Not a sip ever, a promise to his father. Ross Perot wouldn't allow people to drink at lunch at work. He is quoted as saying he really appreciated people who managed to get off the bottle.

This is both evidence the story is false and true!

But it'd be nice if everyone stopped the virtue signalling. It's boring, the story is obviously a just so story. The true story will at best complex, like maybe he tested if someone would break the no lunch drinking rule over a contract.

It's also reported Ross Perot wouldn't hire managers who had a limp handshake shake because they might be homosexuals. Can't you all virtue signal over that instead?

What is the name of the Fortune 100 company mentioned in your story?

That's the problem. I have forgotten that detail of the story. I tried to find references to this story online, but Google has failed me. Maybe you'll have more luck. It seems like all of the search results come up either related to his presidential bid, or his obituary. I remember that the company in question is now a household name, but I don't remember exactly which one.

To be honest this sounds like an urban legend with questionable morality associated with it (baiting recovering alcoholic for money).

> Those without the self control to abstain or exercise moderation are quickly identified as non-management material

Giving people an open bar and then wanting people not to get drunk? That's just cruel.

Looks like I'm staying down in the basement then!

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