Of course I do understand it from a purely capitalistic viewpoint in that a 'cure' would no doubt be worth a ton of money but seriously. What's so bad about baldness?
Sometimes you really piss me off Humanity!
It's debatable whether it's an illness, however there are some findings that suggest the underlying condition not only affects follicle cells but also prostate tissue, leading to a higher chance of developing cancer. But even if there were no ill effects, a cure would still enable bald people to lead a normal life.
That being said, I don't believe this cure exists. There are good preventative drugs, but it's highly doubtful any medication could actually restore dead follicles in humans. Those effects on mice are very likely not transferrable.
This man, the women would not find appealing. His appearance reduces his status: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_VlmHNP9So5Y/Sm86i7qHqLI/AAAAAAAACe...
In holding on to the effectiveness of his remaining fertile follicles, he fails to display the very might and youthful vigor he seeks.
This man, on the other hand, the women love: http://filmpopper.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Patrick-Ste...
This is not only because men improve with age (to a certain point), but also because he cuts his remaining hair very short. He is, as Stephen King once described a character, "unabashadly bald." His confidence is such that he does not cling to the ghost of locks he lacks.
Another example: http://www.philosophyblog.com.au/images/alain-de-botton1.jpg as opposed to http://metkere.com/images/alain-de-botton-thumb-500x356.jpg
Now, I would encourage De Botton to cut his hair even shorter than in the second picture. But by cutting it as short as he has, and shaving the straggly portions up top, he has improved his appeal by indicating his comfortability with the situation.
You might also note a certain Mr. Jason Statham and that fellow who used to be called The Rock.
Thanks for making me laugh :-)
Yes, I do shave my head as well. Sadly, I still don't have the charisma, the fame or the good looks of Patrick Steward. Like I said, some people can pull it off, but not that many. And what if Patrick Steward had the choice? Chances are, he'd opt for a full head of hair and probably even more women would find him sexy because of it.
Also, I thought Sinéad O'Connor was quite attractive without the hair. That doesn't mean I would recommend it for 99% of the women either.
On a personal note, two women told me point blank they'd be attracted to me if I had hair and others have made remarks about how important nice hair is for a man. Sure, it would be great to have other qualities to compensate for this, but since I don't it apparently comes down to hair over baldness.
And his movies.
I couldn't quickly verify the story, but, as someone whose gradual pattern baldness can be most gently described as "hilarious", I appreciate it even if it's not true.
I also think -- and I'm about to be a lot crude here -- that male baldness is a little like breast size for women. Sure, guys will notice average-to-larger sized breasts, but there's a lot more to how attractive they think a woman is: posture, attitude, a smile, for example. Is baldness a disadvantage? Sure. Does it, by itself, make you unattractive? Nah.
Compared to that, baldness is a style that may look good on a few men; it may look neutral on a few more. But the overwhelming majority of men would be better off (dating-wise) with a full head of hair. All other things being equal, having hair is a plus.
Many people are surprised to hear this, but huge breasts can actually be a turn-off to many men. However I never heard a woman say: "I'd find him attractive if only he was bald, that full lustrous head of hair just doesn't do it for me".
Many people are surprised to hear it because it rarely gets said. I believe you are the first man I have heard state that he prefers smaller breasts. Just because you don't hear women say "If only he were bald..." doesn't mean there are no women thinking it.
I will also note that women tend to talk less about men and their physical attributes than men do about women and their physical attributes. Women are generally not in a good position to pursue sex for mere fun and typically need to consider the possibility that, oops, she might wind up pregnant and then it will matter a good deal more if he is decent, loyal, has a reasonable income and so on. I will also note that lots of women like older men and older men are often losing their hair. So I think that is indirect evidence that some women are perfectly happy to get with a man with less hair.
I'm sorry this is such a huge issue for you. But I don't think your argument really holds water.
This has not been my experience.
> I'm sorry this is such a huge issue for you.
It's not, actually. Mainly I just enjoy the discussion.
Actually, you make an interesting point. I believe there is a social norm involved that tells men they have to like large breasts or else they're gay/weak/whatever. I do know a few men who are really and credibly into huge pendulous breasts, but I also know some who just try to conform to the "standard" outwardly and privately they prefer them smaller.
So your point is that women prefer hair because being bald is a social stigma, being an analogous process to the stigmatization of preferring small breasts? I'm not convinced, but it's an interesting thought.
But to bring this back together: my main hypothesis really comes down to the point that "hair" trumps "no hair" if all other factors are eliminated. Sure some people may look awesome without hair, and most men can make up for this and other shortcomings in many ways.
I agree, the whole person counts. But I assert that even an attractive and successful bald man would be more desirable if he had hair. And for the not so attractive and successful, the difference of having hair can be the whole bowl of wax.
I wouldn't put it that way. Some thoughts, since you kind of asked:
The main analogy I was making was that just as men who prefer smaller breasts don't necessarily go crowing about it, women who prefer baldness may also keep their mouths shut.
As for an actual reason to not prefer baldness, see my other remark in this thread about how "looks" are indicators of health: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2409000
As for preferring older men: I think women prefer older men because they make better mates for a variety of reasons. Yes, for some women the financial success of an older man has a lot of appeal. But I really think it's a lot more complicated than that.
My recollection is that male pattern baldness is associated with hormonal stuff. So for some women I can see that being a reason to be drawn to it -- if it looks like the "genetic"/hormonal variety and not some indicator he's just not healthy.
I often wonder if this is a generational thing. This seems to be true of the women I know my age (in their mid 30s, but this has been true when younger as well), but I am also friends with a couple of groups now in their mid 20s and they are very happy to talk about the physical attributes of the guys they know to a level of detail and intimacy that I would never feel comfortable talking about with my male friends.
I have. I've read it, and I've heard it in conversation. I've also heard some women prefer short men, fat men, etc.
Really? I know for a fact that there are women who are crazy about bald guys in particular. And I know that in men, maturity is a good thing, not a bad thing -- you have male sex symbols of actors who are pushing 50. And there's the association between baldness and confidence.
I guess your experience trumps my intuition, but I find it surprising. I'd think, on balance, baldness would be a benefit.
Though, another data point -- I've never heard a woman say, "eew, he's bald," the way they might talk about someone being fat, dirty, or excessively old. I've never heard it come up as a negative, and I have heard it come up as a positive many times before.
I don't really have any hard data to contribute to the discussion. I guess I just wanted to make sure you weren't getting your opinion on what "most women" find attractive from Rogaine commercials. ;)
So maybe you should try shaving bald and getting a bad boy look with a goatee. Women who dig that look will like you. There's a market of women that like that look on a man.
Trying to look good through other methods will help too, like going to the gym, and dressing well. Women associate strong bodies with health, and dressing well with success and self-confidence.
And don't act like this is affecting you, especially if you'll shave. Act like you did it because it makes you look very good, and others around you will start believing it, too. If you look at that Picard picture above, you can see that he acts as if baldness looks good on him, and his self-confidence is showing, which is attractive to women.
Unless the man is black. In which case being bald seems to not be a net negative at all. Unfortunately, becoming black is probably harder than getting hair.
But for future offspring, if your hairloss is genetic, you can have a half-black child and put them in a better position. Although society tends to view blacks less favorably in general so the tradeoff here is still not a no-brainer.
I'm not so sure about that. Granted, where I live there are really really few black people, but I observed they are generally very successful with women no matter whether they're bald or hairy. And I overheard women talk about the advantages and the cuteness of black guys. Heck, a girl friend of mine even kept going on and on about wanting to have "chocolate-colored babies". So, yes, I'd probably choose being black over being hairy if that were possible.
I just meant in terms of everything else, like the research showing that an identical resume with just different names (one black and one white sounding) the white sounding name will get many more call backs.
So, yes, I'd probably choose being black over being hairy if that were possible.
Maybe I missed you stating you were hairy and bald before... it's an odd combination, but not uncommon. I'd love to know why evolutionarily this is so common.
> Maybe I missed you stating you were hairy and bald before...
No, I meant I am neither. But if I could choose one trait, I'd probably opt for black instead of full-head-haired. Probably. It'd be a close one.
> it's an odd combination, but not uncommon. I'd love to know why evolutionarily this is so common.
I believe the reason for general body hairiness, baldness and susceptibility to prostate cancer may be a mutation to the Dihydrotestosterone receptors. Or maybe there is just more of the hormone to begin with, I forget.
Baldness is caused by excess testosterone (not the muscle-building kind, unfortunately). It's associated with maturity and power. The best thing a bald(ing) guy can do is get in decent shape. You don't have to be Arnold, but a strong, bald guy exudes masculinity (look at Picard).
You don't have to waste time with barbers or hairdressers. Just buzz what remains every few days. You're automatically considered lower-maintenance and more masculine because of this.
You don't have bad hair days.
The only things about baldness that suck are sunburns (this is actually the worst thing about going bald, because you're exposed but can't just slather on sunscreen), and hitting your head on stuff. Hair provides a bonus inch or two of sensory input which helps you avoid banging your noggin.
Being young (25-ish) and bald(ing) is less fun, but a lot of the shallow negativity goes away when 50% of your friends start losing their hair by 30. Best of all: the ones who lose it later haven't learned to cope with it, and look hilariously desperate just as you're getting extremely confident.
Behind door 1, baldness. You'll be bald and have a high risk of getting prostate cancer.
Behind door 2, keeping your hair. You'll have a thick, awesome mane to call your own and to do with as you see fit for the rest of your life (including shaving it off occasionally).
So you're telling me you prefer to go through door 1, right?
I will suggest that stuff like this matters to people because it is (or can be) indicative of other, more important stuff. I'm female. I had crappy fingernails most of my life. Then I got diagnosed with a serious medical condition (genetic, so I've had it all my life). This serious medical condition significantly impacts the lungs. It's common knowledge in the medical community that the lung damage shows itself as clubbing and cyanosis of the fintertips. Getting my lungs healthier and improving my baseline health has caused me to have significant improvement in my fingernails. I have the most lovely fingernails I've ever had in my life.
More directly related to the hair issue: While very ill, I began going grey in my early 30's. In hanging out on health lists, I heard that grey hair can be caused by a PABA deficiency and/or adrenal stress. I treated for both with supplements and dietary changes. I am 45 (and have a life expectancy in my mid thirties, so in human terms I'm like the equivalent of an octogenarian :-P) and have less grey hair now than I did 10 years ago.
So I think all these "silly" concerns about "looks" are really rooted in more serious concerns about health. People don't find unhealthy folks attractive both as a means to protect their own health and as a means to protect the health of potential future offspring.
2. Men like to have sex with younger women.
3. Young women tend to not like men who look old.
So yeah, baldness research is going to happen.
Why is not looking youthful something that is so badly in need of a cure?
- 'bald is sexy' only applies to shaved bald, not pattern baldness. Shaved bald is a very high-maintenance haircut
- lack of options in how you can style your hair
- warmth
- scalp protection from injury
- sunburn
- some helmets and other headgear are not really designed for baldness (some also leave unattractive marks)
- sweat control
- self-identity (rockabilly fans like quiffs...)
I'm tall (198cm / 6'6") and the world is not built for me. I do more damage to myself now that I'm balding than when I had hair when I hit a low doorway. I now reflexify duck a bit any time I pass through a door, even if it's 250cm high...
Incorrect, as demonstrated by our heroes, Patrick Stewart and Jason Statham. Also, buzzing with clippers takes me 30 seconds every two or three days.
Not to mention that those two guys are only considered sexy because they have strong charisma to begin with and have a solid body of work behind them. They are sexy in spite of being bald, not because of it.
Any celebrity is an outlier. Looking at one subset of that -- bald celebrities -- is not somehow invalidating.
These bald celebrities are examples of how to look good bald. i.e. close-crop or shave it. Cultivate other aspects of your physical appearance. Be confident and embrace who you are, rather than lamenting that which you aren't.
They are sexy in spite of being bald, not because of it.
Nobody said sexiness is derived from baldness, though it can certainly be a contributing factor, depending on subjective opinion. These men are examples of sexy bald men, period. You can either learn and follow the example, or be snotty and negative about it. I don't really care that you apparently choose the latter.
That you recognise celebrities - subset or otherwise - as an outlier means that you shouldn't be using them to describe normal behaviour, full stop.
I don't really care that you apparently choose the latter.
I'm choosing not to define the world by visible outliers, and instead try and look at how the world is. I may be wrong in my conclusions, but at least I'm not starting from a known faulty premise.
Anyway, what I said stands - shaved bald is sexy, not pattern baldness. The celebrities you pointed out are men who shave their heads or crop them very close. They don't keep their hair at more normal lengths or shoulder length plus.
I honestly have no idea what you're talking about now. Normal behavior? Whose normal behavior? I don't believe I've indicated anything like that.
They don't keep their hair at more normal lengths or shoulder length plus.
This bizarre statement caused me to go back and review the thread again. I now see where the misunderstanding is. Your initial statement, to which I responded was:
'bald is sexy' only applies to shaved bald, not pattern baldness.
Shaved bald means something very, very different from cropped short, or 'buzzed', both in appearance and effort. I assumed you understood this distinction.
The celebrities you pointed out are men who shave their heads or crop them very close. They don't keep their hair at more normal lengths or shoulder length plus.
We're both advocating the same thing. Nobody who is balding looks good with 'normal' or shoulder length hair.