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Comment by spirobel | Hacker News Reader

its time to stop this! I am so proud to see my fellow germans rise up: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=htDrDieOgh0

> proud to see my fellow germans rise up:

That is (luckily imo) only a tiny minority of Germans. I would be very interested: are the current restrictions really that bad? You need to wear a mask in supermarkets, do you think that's actually that big of a deal?

see my other comment. its not about the masks. the economy got ruined and its celebrated like we won something.

Even taking the claims in the article at face value (which is most likely not a good idea), we prevented 40,000 people from dying. That's a lot.

>we prevented 40,000 people from dying

I suppose the Swedish response would be that these deaths weren't prevented, just delayed, as there'll be a second wave, third wave... and lockdowns can't continue forever.

It's the patronizing way things get pushed that is a problem. Including you pointing out someone being in the minority, followed by asking a question: the answer is kinda moot if you already established might being right as valid in your view. It's a very thin veneer of good faith, and completely transparent to the person it's done to.

If I told you to list 3 things you're grateful for each day, and hounded and sanctioned you for not doing it, if I talked about all these Nazis I know who incidentally also are not doing it, and meaningfully nodded your way every time, and made fun of you in filter bubbles... wouldn't you just do this minor thing that may actually be beneficial and is unlikely to do harm?

This is the problem, and to use a pandemic to normalize that just makes it worse, morally speaking.

>If I told you to list 3 things you're grateful for each day, and hounded and sanctioned you for not doing it, if I talked about all these Nazis I know who incidentally also are not doing it, and meaningfully nodded your way every time, and made fun of you in filter bubbles... wouldn't you just do this minor thing that may actually be beneficial and is unlikely to do harm?

The difference being that there is a strong scientific consensus that wearing a mask will save many peoples lives. I don't want to be patronizing and me pointing out that op was in a minority merely wanted to correct the "fellow germans" statement. But sometimes it's difficult not to be patronizing if you are following the strong scientific consensus on a topic. Because wearing masks shouldn't be a political issue if you can't develop a reasonable counterargument.

Listing 3 things you are grateful for each day will improve your whole life and all your relationships. As something that is likely to do good and isn't much of a sacrifice, it's the same thing, and you didn't answer the question.

> Because wearing masks shouldn't be a political issue if you can't develop a reasonable counterargument.

You are the one making it about the masks and only the masks, even the protests aren't, and I for one said IMO the pushiness is the problem, not what is being pushed.

> it's the same thing

It is not. Masks are meant to protect everybody, they are not meant to protect yourself. I'm not in favor of preventing consenting mentally stable adults from doing basically anything to themselves and – to answer your question – I would obviously object to other people forcing me into adopting any unreasonable habit. But this is about protecting society and risk groups.

> IMO the pushiness is the problem, not what is being pushed.

By "the pushiness" do you mean the laws that are in place to force people to do things? Because those are pretty common in all sorts of situations.

Or do you mean the general attitude by commentators (in the media/on twitter etc.) towards people not abiding by those laws?

I didn't say "it's the same thing", I said "As something that is likely to do good and isn't much of a sacrifice, it's the same thing"

> I would obviously object to other people forcing me into adopting any unreasonable habit.

There is nothing "unreasonable" about naming 3 things you are grateful for each day. If you did it each day, you could probably get it down to taking a few seconds.

> Or do you mean the general attitude by commentators (in the media/on twitter etc.) towards people not abiding by those laws?

I do mean the attitude, but not about not abiding to laws per se. It's just a wholesale dismissal. Like, what does "mentally stable" have to do with anything, why did you weave that in there? Because instable people are complaining about masks or think G5 causes Corona? What do, for example, arguments put forward in the OP article have to do with that?

And this is how it was described in US media.

"A large crowd of far-right groups gathered for a "sit-in" at Berlin's iconic Brandenburg Gate on Saturday to protest against the German government's coronavirus restrictions."

The same thing in the german press. the next demonstration will be on the 29. of august. It will be even bigger than the last one. You can fool some of the people some of the time. But you cant fool all the people all of the time.

I guess my question was - is that true? No doubt there were some far-right groups, but from what I've read it wasn't all of them.

It just seemed like an incredibly dismissive headline. "No worries, just crazy far-right doing their crazy stuff. We can safely ignore what they have to say."

I think we can and should safely ignore what people who protest against public health measures in a pandemic say, especially when it's rebelling against life-saving emergency measures.

Shame be upon such short-sighted folks who think that their "freedom" to not wear a mask is greater than others right to merely live.

I'll say it again: can you imagine what the survivors of World War 2 lived through? 10 years of being nervous everytime you try to go to the toilet... and these modern crybabies and their anti-vaccine lies want you to take them seriously?

It's not right.

Your comments have been breaking the site guidelines. Please stop taking the thread further into flamewar.

Other commenters are expressing views that are (presumably) similar to yours in ways that stay within the guidelines. If you would please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and be like them, we'd be grateful.

I am sure there are good people on both sides.

I also saw US media describe a protest against the Iraq war by school children as "Hitler's Children: Pro-Saddam protesters in Munich" in the caption of a photo of a blonde kid. Yes, right-wing people are a large part of it, and too many people who are not right-wing aren't critical enough of that. But to simply paint it all with one broad brush and call it a day simply betrays an agenda rather than being an accurate description of reality.

ah, the people that most germans refer to, poetically perhaps, as the "Covidioten".

it turns out that in Germany, as in the USA, there is a significant overlap between the Covidioten and right-wing/nationalist political groups, including even fringe groups that don't believe that the Third Reich actually ended. This gives rise to some good jokes within Germany.

Such as: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EeQm7ecXYAYv_ni.jpg

Looks like by "this" you mean contact with reality, evidence-based reasoning, and a scientific approach.

Just curious - what do you thing will happen in the long run if the whole world chooses to live according to some mythology, as you propose?

Please don't break the site guidelines. I understand the frustration of people being wrong on the internet, but responding with name-calling ("contact with reality", "mythology you propose") only makes the thread worse. The spirit of this site means either posting corrective information (as others in this thread are doing), or resisting the temptation to post.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Imagine the folks who lived through 10 years of World War 2, and here you are crying about wearing a mask to the supermarket.

It's such a pity that you have Trumpelstiltskins over there too. I had thought you smarter...

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