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Comment by chmod775 | Hacker News Reader

Some chemist acquaintances of mine suggested the same from just looking at the footage immediately after. Along with some scary explanations of what fast shockwaves like that do to human blood vessels.

I was convinced this stuff should be outlawed for most uses pretty fast.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonium_nitrate_disasters

Though on the other hand, the number of incidents and deaths aren't that high considering how prevalent it is. It's just that a critical failure of handling that stuff is quite spectacularly bad.

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Ammonium nitrate is essential as a fertilizer. There are no cost effective alternatives so we'll have to just accept the risk.

You can decrease such risks by mixing carbonate minerals (calcium-carbonate and magnesium carboante) into the AN fertilizer, as done in EU counties (and probably in the rest of the world as well).

Isn't it also used as a cost effective explosive in some places?

I mean, perhaps thats the reason it was not made inert when it was fabricated in Ukraine. It was on the Lebanese authorities to properly store or dispose of it after they seized the shipping.

It's mixed with diesel and used as a quarrying explosive.

Not to mention as a historically popular homebrew explosive for less than legal uses.

Not to mention that you don't need to store 2750 tonnes of it in a warehouse in a harbour in a large city like Beirut.

The natural heat was the killer. IF twitter was right the fire started from sparks from a welding on a door. The AN must have already been decomposing in the heat and under weight just waiting.

I wonder how often this storage facility was at a critical point like this. Like how many hot days. How often before this. It makes you think about all the other risks sitting out there just waiting for a small spark.

How many near misses.

There was also fireworks going of just before the blast. Storing 2750 tons of AN next to a fireworks cache seems cartoonishly stupid.

https://twitter.com/ConflictsW/status/1290681902781861888?s=...

If prior to the explosion you were told that all dangerous cargo is stored in dangerous cargo area of the port, would you've thought it is stupid?

Would I have thought that storing a massive amount of explosives next to flammable material in the middle of a city was a bad idea? Yes.

I don't claim to be a prophet, but it's hard for me to see why anyone wouldn't think that would be a bad idea.

That's probably how it's done in your nearest port, as well as anywhere else. With actual storage and fire safety procedures (hopefully) better followed.

Same reason you have ammunition depots in the military and not mixed storage of your howitzer shells with MREs and socks. Partitioning hazardous stuff into dedicated holds with heightened access and fire security is how it's done everywhere.

I'd expect the "dangerous cargo area" to be a specialised, and somewhat more highly scrutinised area of the port.

Familiarity breeds contempt is probably the best explanation.

These are the realities in many parts of the world: safety routines are followed only as much as to obtain the necessary international certification/rating for the site.

Consider this the next time there's discussion about merits of introducing nuclear power globally.

I've been told that it was ammunition, not fireworks.

Well it's not really that easy to detonate AN, there are quite a bit of variables that come together.

It’s outrageous that this was left there for years. Texas City should never have been repeated (this looks like an even bigger explosion).

Turns out it wasn’t voluntary - an unscrupulous ship owner abandoned their crew, vessel and cargo when the vessel was deemed unseaworthy - they’ve been trying to get rid of it for years.

It’s not the most stable stuff, but with wet nitrate you’ll usually just get a fierce fire, not a detonation - but if a percussive shell from the fireworks landed in it and then detonated, that would be enough to make it go bang.

Ammonium nitrate, and ANFO is one of the safest non-military explosives.

And following this, it is one of the most casually, and carelessly treated.

A media report here in .au today told me only 1% of the ammonium nitrate sold here is for fertiliser, and 99% is used to make explosives for mining.

(I can't find the article I read, but my guess is that writer got those numbers from here: https://www.worksafe.qld.gov.au/injury-prevention-safety/haz... )

But Australia probably has a pretty strong mining and relatively weak farming industry compared to most other nations.

Afaik, specifically cultivation of plants that require fertilizer might be lacking, but that farming animals (cow, sheep) is significant

Well, we can still mitigate the risk quite a bit. We don't have to store 2750 tonnes of it, all in one place, for 7 years. That is asking for trouble.

We also don't have to store it next to a city.

or built a city next to a factory producing it

What do you recommend using for fertiliser in its place?

(I'm sure someone's thought about this idea before. Timothy McVeigh did his mad bombing with typical rural materiel. Not so fun fact: the VBIED predates the internal combustion engine.)

I think there's some meta commentary here, having someone propose "this dangerous stuff might be getting clamped down on soon".

One of the most important materials in the history of modern civilization, that enabled us to get to a place where we can all sit around on HN and not worry how our food is grown

> What do you recommend using for fertiliser in its place?

Horse manure :)

> I was convinced this stuff should be outlawed for most uses pretty fast.

Let's outlaw cars and kitchen knives as well.

Oh and... guns? Outlaw guns in America? :) They can be dangerous too.

Don't forget cars, they kill an average of 40k people a year since the 50s in the US.

I didn't! They were the first in my 'to outlaw' list :)

There's no real economical alternative fertilizer.

Yup, you can see water vapourize.

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