China will not accept U.S. 'theft' of TikTok: China Daily | Hacker News Reader

China will not accept U.S. 'theft' of TikTok: China Daily

reuters.com

42 points7d7n35 comments

It's pretty clear that globally China has taken a "divide and conquer" approach to countries generally. After China reneged on it's Hong Kong agreement it became starkly clear that China is not interested in the "rule of law" either within China or without.

At this point it's clear that the world will divide into two camps, those aligned with China and those aligned with the rule of law. Now it's just the Cold War all over again. Companies of each sphere operating on the other sphere can expect to withdraw over the next several years.

US hasn't been ideal on rule-of-law either....

But the path you're describing is likely, and concerning. If we end up with a China sphere of influence and a US sphere of influence, that won't be great for anyone, except the ruling parties.

Would a single Chinese global influence be better?

Better than a single US global influence? Maybe? Maybe not. US global influence hasn't been too great if you've been keeping tabs.

We have actually and by almost all metrics things have trended in the right direction. See the charts here: https://sdg-tracker.org/

I think if we have a US sphere of influence and a Chinese sphere of influence, within a few decades, that's where we'll end up.

Can you explain how "rule of law" worked when USA invaded Iraq and Libya? Perhaps you have missed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curveball_(informant)#Admissio...?

Did you forget China invaded Hong Kong last month? The current US administration doesn’t represent with the one from the 80s or 90s.

“Remember when France has a king?” That’s the equivalent of what you are saying.

Just last year the US government decided the leader of another country should "be brought to justice", saying he's a drug trafficker after two failed US-linked attempts at causing an uprising.

https://www.state.gov/department-of-state-offers-rewards-for...

Like it or not, Hong Kong is part of China.

Isn't it true that American companies must operate either part or whole of their business as a subsidiary of a Chinese company to do business in China?

Not really true for most sectors where FDI can be 100%. It depends on sector in which company is operating. Like in USA there are certain industry where foreign companies cannot participate and require a special security clearance, which is only granted to local company run by USA citizen.

China operates the same way. Check more details at China briefing [1].

[1] https://www.china-briefing.com/news/chinas-2020-new-negative...

But most us businesses can work in uk and Eu but not in china. Hence the close up of the market (for alleged security reason) is economic and political Impossible

Microsoft has 99% marketshare. KFC, McDonald's, Nike, Coke, GE, GM all have dominate huge chunks of their market.

What you are saying is completely incorrect and bizarrely repeated ad nauseum here.

There's far more US companies operating in China than vice versa.

Please provide some evidence for the claim that "most US businesses can't work in China".

Isn't it true that the American government has obtained user data several times from tech companies.

Whataboutism?

Whataboutism is basically questioning hypocrisy. Yeah, it's not nice to have your hypocrisy questioned, but it isn't wrong.

The problem is it's a distraction from the original complaint. It doesn't answer the question, rather it deflects it onto something else.

Tiktok isnt doing business in China though?

Bytedance has a similar app that meets local legal requirements but it's not up for sale.

This is not an unusual requirement. Fifty years ago, the company my father worked for looked at a mining venture in a French dependency in the Pacific. It had to be done as a joint venture with a French company, which had to own 51%.

This is hardly about CCP or China, and is more about the founders. And please there is hardly any IP in social networks or IM apps. The secret sauce is all about vitality. From the days of ICQ and AIM two decade ago, we’ve seen new apps almost every 5 years or so as users get bored of their network and just move onto the next fad. TikTok founders are lucky to get USD for all their hard work and they should just take the money and upgrade their lifestyle to live in a more open society.

Looking forward to China forcing Microsoft and Apple to sell their China operations to Alibaba.

This is going to be fun to watch.

Watch the United States retaliate by closing all trade to China.

The Chinese still need America more.

That may not be true forever but it’d be quite an economic collapse if China was shut out of trade with the western world.

The Chinese-American trade system is of mutual benefit to both systems ruling powers. We'll talk tough and we'll impose tariffs, but there is absolutely no way that we're going to cut off China globally.

Yeah, and who's going to make all your stuff for dirt cheap? Do you have any idea how hard the economy relies on China to be be competitive, even more to survive.

The thing is you probably could shop around and buy things made elsewhere but:

1) Chinese made things are convenient. 2) Chinese made goods are competitively priced. 3) Chinese made goods are readily available. 4) China makes other things too, such as materials, medical supplies, vaccines...

Probably 98% of the items in your house come from China either directly all indirectly.

That's the short term impact. On the long term, both side might get stronger by becoming more independent

This is assuming you can survive the short term impact, that impact would be no joke.

This won't last long...change is coming.

While I don't condone President Trump's behavior and his approach towards China, and with US losing its place in the world; I find it equally amusing that we in democratic society are willing to kowtow to an authoritarian regime, despite of its overwhelming [1] state of surveillance, Han-supremacy motifs and funding it with more asymmetrical trade policies. Democracy is eroding in front of our eyes and no one seems to care. Hey, at least we can even protest in the west (while getting tear gassed, but not tanks and bullets causing a massacre like 1989).

"Take that, America!!!" seems to get people entertained. Not defending America, there are plenty of Americans wanting to say "Take that, China!!!".

EU folks are bashing US, US folks are speechless at what their nation is going through, India and China are at arms, Australia has Chinese infestation, Japan is the most Sinophobic country in the world, Taiwan is nervous, Hong Kong is decimated, Eastern EU is going authoritarian, UK is spiraling into isolation, etc.

This is not going to be fun to watch.

[1] Vice, How China Tracks Everyone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLo3e1Pak-Y

We're mostly willing to keep enjoying the fruits of Chinese labour because the lifestyle that has emerged in most Western Countries the last 20-25 years depend on the availability of cheaply manufactured goods. Outsourcing of production, import, distribution and selling of those goods is still cheaper than producing them locally, and this allowed a small number of people to skim money off the top and get quite rich, while consumers still get more for their money compared to the old ways.

We would be able to cut China off if we wanted to, but prices on electronics, clothing, and many other goods would soar, and I suspect it would piss the younger generations off even more, possibly increasing the risk of civil unrest. In the West, Generations X and XY still remember what life was like before the availability of goods reached current levels, but I can't imagine that the younger generations even realise what it would mean to go back.

Besides, you'd probably have to get rid of the post-war generations first in order to get them to agree to it.

Thus, we'll just have to grab some popcorn, watch the show and keep trying to put out the fires, hoping the entire house doesn't burn down. As you say, it's not going to be fun.

Thanks for sharing your perspective.

> willing to kowtow to an authoritarian regime

It's not about kowtowing. It's about sticking to principles of free trade and the rule of law. It use to be the good guys vs. the bad guys, now it's the bad guys vs. the at-least-we're-not-that-bad guys. What is the point if we show that, if push comes to shove, we're willing to be just as authoritarian?

or Amazon for that matter https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-amazon-cloud/amazon...

What is the fair valuation for the part(s) outside China? Theft could mean stock-swap.

Oh, maybe not. Maybe Trump doesn't believe in free market economics regarding Microsoft stock.

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