Apple Fails When It Comes To “Basic Durable Product Design”? | Hacker News Reader

Apple Fails When It Comes To “Basic Durable Product Design”?

gadgetizor.com

21 pointscskau29 comments

I do not find this to be true as I have had multiple connectors with the design proposed as 'durable' in the article and they have simply began to to fray some other place.

As proven in the original reddit-thread[1] you can easily find proof of other designs - broken [2].

[1]: http://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/gd2lm/apple_has_yet_to...

[2]: http://i.imgur.com/KFIhV.jpg

EDIT: formatting

Id wager that while some of Apple's design can lead to fraying or other failure, they have done a lot in recent years to improve the quality of their products and cables.

1. The introduction of the UniBody design and manafacturing process has made their MacBook Pro laptops much stronger than previous versions and competing plastic laptops.

2. The introduction of the MagSafe charging cable design has been the lifesavor of accidental tugs and trips. As well the second iterative design of the cable (introduced with the MacBook Air) has even further reduced fraying.

> The introduction of the UniBody design and manafacturing process has made their MacBook Pro laptops much stronger than previous versions and competing plastic laptops.

I'm not sure about this. I have a white macbook from 2007 that never had a problem and has still great battery life while the early 2009 unibody macbook:

1. adapter for external monitors didn't work right until some point in late 2009.

2. got a dent from a battery charger falling on it from 10 cm high.

3. the battery charging circuit died less than 5 months after I bought it and had to be replaced (along with the logic board).

4. the battery life has been awful ever since.

5. went through 3 battery chargers.

6. LED display connection was coming loose and cleaning the screen with anything but the gentlest of touches would cause it to briefly fail.

7. hard drive died this month.

MagSafe WAS great, and now they broke it in the new models. The cable was pointing outwards in the old design and it really was almost impossible to pull your laptop when you pull the cable in any way. Now the cable is pointing back (or forward) and its actually quite easy to pull the laptop (especially the lite air models). I almost dropped it few times because of that

I don't understand. If anything, the new MagSafe design creates a lever when you pull the cable and snaps the charger out much more easily.

Oh, do you mean you pull the cable in parallel with the body, rather than outwards?

I find that with the new 90 degree connector it is much more likely to be yanked in parallel to the machine. The metal mount is much more durable but I've had my laptop nearly pulled out of my hands a few times by someone tripping/yanking on the cord and pulling the machine straight back.

Except the big problem with the old MagSafe plug was that it would get bent around in various positions and eventually some internal connection would break and it would stop working.

I went through at least 3 chargers that way, no joke.

Apple products don't need durability, since they release a new version of a product by the time the current generation is no longer new. Why would you want your ipad or iphone to last more than one year, when the new iphone or ipad will make you look obsolete ? Why cling to those past inferior versions ? Just buy the newest ones !

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence

I sense some sarcasm in your response but it's basically true, at least for portable devices (and not just Apple). Try to go into the Verizon store and buy a charger, case, or any other accessory for a phone that more than about 12 - 18 months old, they won't have them anymore... they've moved on to the next model. And WHY do device manufactures change the connectors with every generation so the old chargers you had can't be kept as spares... so if you lose your charger you can be pressured to just upgrade your whole phone. At least the Apple products are better in that regard.

The problem with the MagSafe strain relief has been addressed... all companies have these little issues and I certainly don't think you can make a blanket statement that Apple products aren't durable due to this specific issue (typing this on a 12" PowerBook G4, ca 2002).

"And WHY do device manufactures change the connectors with every generation"

Have you looked closely at the last generation of changes? Pretty much every single phone except for the iPhone now uses micro-USB. So yes, it's annoying that everybody changed in the last generation, but everybody changing to the same thing is double-plus good.

Every manufacturer of consumer electronics is like that. The explanation is simple and not evil: Moore's law. It just makes no sense to sell products with last year's technology. That doesn't mean that the old products become automatically obsolete.

My 2007 MBP still works. My 2004 iPod mini still works. My parents' 2008 Compaq laptop still works.

I think the Kindle connector cable gets the balance between prettiness and durability just right.

http://www.harinair.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/111.jpg

If you don't take care of stuff, it won't take care of you. I do work with people who must torture their stuff - every cable is kinked or bent in some way, or fraying at the end. Some of this might be faulty cables - I've had a Dr. Bott ADC to DVI cable just fall apart after 3 insertions - but on the whole I tend to think it's how people treat their stuff.

On an Apple square supply for the lead to the computer rather than pulling it at an angle straight to the winding clips, you put a small loop in the wire right where it exits the block, then wrap it around. No stress on where it exits the block - I've had the same one in my bag for 4 years now. I've seen people who just yank that sucker in one direction as hard as they can then wrap it around, and yes, that will cause the wire to break there...

Also, it's worth buying an extra power supply as backup. Apple has kept compatibility with most things - the original 85W supply used from the first MacBook Pro will still work with the newest unit today.

Coincidentally, I am furiously trying to read HN before my MacBook's battery runs out, as my "elegant" white connector is frayed, making it useless. As this is the second cord I'm buying, while the black industrial cords are ugly, I'll take function over form any day.

With some of the first magsafe-based macs, I was buying a new power adapter every three months or so. The cord would fray at the end of the way-too-small strain relief between the magsafe connector and the cord. I had one nearly catch on fire (melted a bunch of the plastic covering) when it wore enough that it shorted. I figured that this was the recurring part of the 'Apple tax'.

To be fair though, in the last couple years the connectors have gotten much better - I think they extended the strain relief collar so that it does not get bent at as sharp of an angle. Also the new unibody macs have a 90-degree magsafe connector which eliminates a lot of the strain. (Unfortunately I think it is also a less safe design - it takes much more force to disengage the magnets at most angles where the cord would actually get pulled)

My other notebooks all have a reinforced power connector at the stress point where it meets the machine; this really is a solved problem. However, like you said, it's far to ugly to be put on a Mac out of the factory.

But considering it now, maybe I should liberally apply electrical tape to the area around the end of the MacBook's power cable to strengthen it. I don't care how ugly the computer is as long as it doesn't break.

Perhaps you would be interested in http://www.macmagsaver.com/

Most durable interconnects have, by design, poor usability - they are bulky, big (also by diameter), too stiff, etc.

Those cables aren't great indeed, but the newest magsafe design is a great improvement. I wouldn't be surprised if they copy that to their other cables.

(not the fact that it's vertical of course, that wouldn't be very practical.)

Not only the cable issue... The most un-durable design from Apple in my opinion is the unchangeable battery for iPod, iPhones and iPads.

As Typhoon pointed out, for those devices Apple apparently have made the (reasonable IMHO) assumption that most people will be ready to upgrade to a new model by the time the battery would need to be changed, and so could use a sleeker one-piece design rather than one with an ugly battery door. For those that don't want to upgrade, it's possible to change the battery, just not convenient.

So if you want something disposable, pay a couple hundred extra for a Mac.

Right.

The customer service in any Apple store is excellent though, I haven't seen similar anywhere else. Not everyone has the luxury of one nearby but the store staff seem to have a lot of personal discretion in replacing things that are out of warranty.

Of course, the huge sales margins help to make this possible. Take advantage of this if you can. I've stood in their flagship store on Oxford Street and told a passing employee that my power supply had caught fire (slight exaggeration - minor scorching around the frayed part when it shorted) and been whisked away quickly and given a replacement.

All cables from all manufacturers break fast for me; doesn't really matter how they were made. I have 100s of cables + headphones, all broken like this. Maybe i'm not very careful!

Anyone else have an iPod touch/iPhone that is unusable because the apple dock socket no longer works unless you push down on it while it's connected?

Great business model though, why pay $100 to get it fixed when I can put that money towards an iPad 2...

EDIT: Actually, it'd cost me $199 http://www.apple.com/support/ipod/service/prices/

Wow. Those repair prices are ridiculous enough to warrant an article of their own. There's really no point in fixing a broken iPod when it's cheaper to buy a new one.

It seems like the author of the piece points to a frayed connector and says "see! Their products aren't durable!" Jumping to conclusions, in other words.

That said I am on my second Macbook, and I do notice they don't seem to take punishment quite as gracefully as other laptops...

I had this problem with the cable going into the Magsafe connector on my last Macbook, still functional but concerningly wires were visible. On the charger of my newer MBP (2009) the cable-plug join is notably bigger/thicker and hasn't given me any problems. I think they've learned and improved.

Related Zed rant:

http://zedshaw.com/essays/apple_sux.html

Reply on news.ycombinator.com