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Comment by bilbopotter | Hacker News Reader

Obviously what they did is wrong but the kid is 17. To me this is a prime example of where a short sentence or community service should be used. Don't ruin his life - he could be a useful employee for a tech company.

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It drives me a little nuts when people say stuff like this (they said it about Reiser, too) --- because you can say the same thing about tens of thousands of young offenders imprisoned for crimes we don't have a rooting interest in.

We need to reduce sentences across the board, for both violent and nonviolent crimes, because our sentencing ranges are bonkers. But it's immoral to single out crimes committed by people we identify with personally as particularly worthy of leniency.

At any rate, presuming the evidence holds up, it's unlikely that this person is going to find any leniency at all. High profile is tough but survivable; monetized is tougher still. High profile and monetized? My guess is they're going to make an example out of him.

> But it's immoral to single out crimes committed by people we identify with personally as particularly worthy of leniency.

You don't just disagree, but actually believe people asking for leniency are outright behaving immorally. You can disagree without calling someone immoral.

Sending a 17 year old to prison for a non violent crime for 2-4x as long as a murderer would get in my country seems criminal in itself (but I don't think you are immoral for advocating for it).

Reiser was a murderer. An equivalent to this crime would be a 17 Yr old who managed to pick the lock of Fort Knox with a toothpick and walk out with a 1kg gold bar.

> At any rate, presuming the evidence holds up, it's unlikely that this person is going to find any leniency at all. High profile is tough but survivable; monetized is tougher still. High profile and monetized? My guess is they're going to make an example out of him.

I wouldn’t be so sure. Look at Paras Jha, Zachary Buchta and Mir Islam.

All engaged in similar high profile crimes, all monetized. I think only Mir spent a little bit of time in prison.

I have a hard time thinking of any young, high profile offenders that were handed severe punishments for cybercrimes by federal courts in the past decade.

American justice is rarely about rehabilitating the perpetrator. It’s about ensanguinating the bloodthirsty and making the fearful feel safe.

And enriching the private prisons owners, who then lobby both parties for harsher sentences and this is why the US, a free democracy, has the highest incarceration rate in the World.

Private prisons represent only ~8% of the US state & federal prison population[0]. Private prisons, while bad, are a distraction from the larger issues of policing and incarceration in the US and aren't the reason why we have so many people locked up. Almost half of all federally incarcerated people in the US are there for drug-related offenses[1] thanks to the "War on Drugs", that's where you want to be focusing your efforts on change.

[0]: https://www.sentencingproject.org/publications/private-priso....

[1]: https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_offen...

While that percentage is low, it doesn't tell the whole story. Private prisons are certainly a major symptom of the problem with our prisons. The U.S. has the largest private prison population in the world, and you'll note from your own link that the private prison population from 2000 to 2019 increased by 39%. Also, for federal prisons, the percentage of inmates in private prisons is 19.1%. These are definitely problems and discussing them also helps discuss the big issues such as why in the hell we're incarcerating so many people.

https://www.sentencingproject.org/publications/capitalizing-...

And private prisons create an insane incentive to increase incarceration in order to increase profits.

and making the plebs fearful

> It’s about ensanguinating the bloodthirsty

So, like Twitter.

If he had gotten into twitter to make some funny status's then sure, community service makes sense. But this kid scammed a lot of money from a lot of people, severe criminal charges are appropriate.

And this is where the distinction between minor and adult breaks down. He's 17, he's going to be an adult within 365 days.

I dunno what you do here. The book would absolutely be thrown at him if he were 18. He might get off "lightly" at 17, but should he? He should know better right?

I think he gets tried as an adult. He just yeeted his life.

Honestly the fact that an adult would get such a harsh sentence seems pretty dumb too.

True he did commit a serious crime, but it's a non-violent crime. The kid obviously has some skill and potential in life. Sending young, misguided amateur criminals to prison just creates professional criminals. A crapton of strict probation and community service would be more appropriate than prison in my opinion.

Agreed that he should not face prison time for this. I would agree with a fine on the order that he is estimated to have scammed from people.

Depends on your views of the justice system. Is it prevent person from committing the crime again? Is it punish the person for the crime regardless of whether or not the punishment prevents future crimes by the person? Or is it to punish the person so others will be fearful of similar consequences?

100% the first, always the first. Other than that justice will become just a political tool.

Hard disagree. Beyond the 'hacking', if that's what you can even call it, he knowingly scammed people. That's not kids being kids, that's some inherent mental state. Throw the book at him.

IIRC in the past, cyber criminals in similar situations were made to help federal cyber crime investigations, not sure whether through community service or a form of prison labor. The price tag for talented people is high so it's a win-win situation compared to wasting their talent by making them do low skilled labor.

he socially engineered his way into twitter... that's not exactly what those units are looking for.

Didn't the FBI hire Frank Abagnale Jr for like 30 years specifically for those exact skills?

More for his check fraud stuff I thought.

It doesn't matter what skills he has if he is morally bankrupt.

Sure, it's a crime and he knew that. That being said, let's not pretend like this is a fully developed adult human who has committed murder. This is a child (legally) who committed fraud. The brain of a 17 year old is still physically developing; the prefrontal cortex isn't fully formed. I can't fathom how you would expect them to have the capacity to fully grasp the consequences of their actions with an issue as complex as this one.

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