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Comment by bryanthompson | Hacker News Reader

On this topic, if anyone can point me toward a US-based issuer where I can open an account and get a card that supports credit pin (not pin for cash advance on a credit card), I'll happily venmo you a pizza or something. The issuers I have spoken to[1] all tell me it is impossible to get such a card in the US, which seems ridiculous.

[1]: https://wallethub.com/credit-cards/chip-and-pin/ I discussed each of the cards noted here with the issuers, not one is actually chip+pin credit.

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* Spokane Teachers Federal Credit Union (Mastercard)

* Andrews FCU (Visa, one of the cards is also contactless) - Must ask for the "international travel" card, the default is chip-and-sign

* State Department FCU (Visa) - Must ask for the "international travel" card, the default is chip-and-sign

* Target REDcard Mastercard (you have to get the normal store card and hope to get swapped out to the Mastercard after a few months/years/epochs; you can't get the Mastercard from the first go)

Also the UNFCU credit cards.

I have inquired about this also and found no solution. If I use my US based credit cards abroad where chip and pin is the norm, I end up getting asked to sign a printed receipt.

I imagine the card networks just don’t want to spend money to change the infrastructure to support chip and pin because the merchant pays for most the losses in the US?

The liability shift in the US that affected most retailers occurred in October 2015 -- basically, merchants are and have been liable for fraud that occurs on swiped transactions. I'd be curious to find out how the example presented by the parent article could change this -- a valid-looking card that only has swipe would definitely be taken by a merchant for fraud, and if the card doesn't claim to be EMV-capable, it seems like this would not be the merchant's fault. I would think in 2020, however, a mag stripe only card would raise red flags with humans at the counter, but gift cards are this way, so perhaps they would just breeze right through.

Previous commenter and I were talking about chip and pin, not just chip (aka EMV).

With EMV, someone can still use your card after they steal it. With chip and pin, that is far more difficult. I don’t know if merchant off the hook even with just chip, I presume the card networks kept some weasel language in order to allow them to blame the merchant.

EMV is the standard for the debit/credit cards with chips. It includes modes with PINs, signatures, and neither, depending on the configuration of the card (i.e. the bank) and the reader (i.e. the shop's bank/intermediary).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMV

Had many arguments with cashiers in Europe who refused to let me sign receipts and insisted I just enter a pin.

Also interesting how there are such specific requirements at grocery stories. None of my US-based cards could be used in several grocery stores in the Netherlands. When the cashier looked at my cards, they immediately knew it was because I didn't support whatever networks they expect.

Maestro or VPay they expected, the european old-school debit brands.

I was (politely) threatened with arrest on a British commuter train when the ticket inspector's credit card device insisted on a PIN for an American credit card.

He literally didn't believe me when I said American cards still ask for signatures. By luck there was an American also riding in the cabin who piped up to verify my story and I was allowed to pay when I reached my destination.

In Australia the same card works with contactless payment, which never asks for a signature, up to AU$100. But as soon as I go over that limit it's a card dip + signature.

First Tech Federal Credit Union offers Chip and Pin Mastercard.

https://www.firsttechfed.com/

https://www.firsttechfed.com/help/support/frequently-asked-q...

What is the difference between Chip and PIN versus Chip and Signature? Chip and PIN is the most secure type of credit card technology. Instead of a signature being used for identity verification, it requires you to enter a four-digit Personal Identification Number (PIN) that must correspond to information contained in a computer chip embedded within the card. The Chip and PIN authentication method has been a global standard across Europe and Asia for many years which means using your card while traveling overseas will be even more convenient. Authorizing your transactions with a PIN is not new to debit card transactions, but is a new way to authorize payments with a credit card.

You may occasionally still be asked to sign for transactions while using your chip card. Please be assured that while these transactions are still secure, many merchants do not yet support chip and PIN so you may encounter this from time to time. First Tech is committed to ensuring chip and PIN technology is available wherever merchants accept it. Learn more at firsttechfed.com/mastercard.

Can confirm; I have First Tech and Spokane Teachers cards and both are chip-and-PIN. If either of them would start offering contactless on these cards, I'd have the perfect travel card.

I joined First Tech just to get that Chip and PIN card. It worked great everywhere I went in Europe.

Last I knew Barclays is the only one who offers a credit PIN that you can use at kiosks that only accept PINs. I also heard Navy Federal was rolling it out but their services are a military+family only

This article says there's a few, ymmv

https://www.creditcardinsider.com/blog/chip-and-pin-credit-c...

Barclays has chip and PIN capability, but it doesn't default to PIN if signature is available - it will only trigger if that's the only verification method, which is almost never the case in the US.

(Source: I have one, and the only time I've entered the PIN is at a British train ticket machine.)

I believe AmEx charge cards (Green, Gold, Platinum, possibly others but these are the good ones) are all chip-and-pin. The Blue Cash one on that website isn't.

My Gold is definitely not chip-and-pin. Chip, yes. Pin, no.

HSBC

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