NFC Data Dump: Part I | Hacker News Reader

NFC Data Dump: Part I

2 points18pfsmt10 comments

NFC technology and concepts sprang from RFID (a family of technology itself, operating across 4 very different frequencies) technology. RFID emerged originally as a replacement for barcodes in the supply chain. The metrics of focus within the supply chain were on read range and tag_reads/ second. NFC operates at 13.56MHz. In RFID, you had the reader that was powered, and the tag which was a powerless inductor with a EEPROM chip attached. The reader is the transceiver, the tag is a transponder. NFC turned this paradigm on its head-> the transceiver/ transponder were one. In ISO RFID standards, you had ISO 15693 and ISO 18000-3 that focused on the supply chain; and, ISO 14443A and 14443B which focused on security/ data rate ->payment->passport. Sony purposed a 14443C standard for the FeliCa chip, but that failed. NFC technology only works within a range of 4 inches (10cm) by standard, but 2 inches in reality.

I've got a ton more knowledge about NFC, but I don't want to spam HN if there is no interest. If there is interest, I can go into silicon mfgs and device mfgs (like VIVOtech, about to go IPO)

I am very interested. Especially about mass production costs, information about contract manufacturers/design firms for NFC components/designs friendly to startups, tech challenges in noisy (as in EM noise) and crowded (as in dozens/hundreds/thousands of NFC devices in a small area) environments, regulatory environments around the world (as applicable), adoption stories and results, security concerns.

Thanks!

Tags only cost about $1. If you go for volume you can reduce that cost. UHF tags used in the supply chain now (e.g. wal-mART) are 900MHz, and a whole different ballgame.

Silicon providers that make tag ICs (transponders):

NXP Semi- (formerly Phillips semiconductor) - most prominent being Mifare (14443A) Texas Instruments- (15693/ 14443B) Broadcom- through Innovision acquisition (14443B) Infineon- (1443B) they got the contract for US passports (I read and have a 500 page spec; NDA required)

Silicon providers that make reader ICs (transceivers):

1) NXP semi 2) Sony Felica- very guarded, about everything 3) Melexis- they allow TI to repackage, but their IC can be used to call commands of all kinds; it isn't clear their Ip rights beyond 14443B. French Telecom has IP rights here.

Oops, I forgot: 4) Inside Contactless - French company (Visa is one strategic investor)

ISO 18092 has two parts, and part 2, where your phone is just a passive tag, is not currently possible, This technology has been stagnant for 4 years because Visa/ mastercard/ amex have been fighting att/verzon/tmobile over who gets the fees.

Can someone help explain to me why the HN community isn't interested in the technological underpinnings of the next of wave payment technology? [I, personally, prefer cash.]

When are we getting those RFID microtags which you can eat with the food in restaurant, and have your stomach scanned when it's time to pay?

This is my attempt at being serious because NFC can enable a_lot of companies and I want the smart folks that read HN to be as informed as possible.

I haven't spent much time reading or thinking about NFC, but I'd love to hear some thoughts about what industries & companies NFC could enable. Outside of payments & access control/authentication, what other opportunities do you see in the industry?

Imagine not having to check-in at the desk to get into your hotel room, but instead being sent your "key" digitally. When you get to your hotel room door, you simply tap your phone on it. These were use cases we used 4 years ago, before the rise of smartphones.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com