A man who grows fields full of tables and chairs (2015) | Hacker News Reader

A man who grows fields full of tables and chairs (2015)

bbc.com

121 pointsjacquesm46 comments

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They're still growing the first batch, apparently, and still taking pre-orders.

https://fullgrown.co.uk/

And apparently investors (with some sales numbers):

https://www.shadowfoundr.com/investments/583/full-grown/?fan...

Jeeze this is cool. It reminds me of some of my early fantasy books. Perhaps they do this in Eragon?

This link is from 2015, but it appears they're still going strong [0]. The business just seems brutal. They're combining long production cycles with a relatively "fad-ish" product group. I'm hopeful they can scale it up!

[0] https://fullgrown.co.uk

The image at the bottom indicates the trees are killed and turned into portable traditionally-shaped chairs/tables/etc.

This actually disappoints me. I was hoping for shaped trees that would be transplanted into parks and keep growing, the kind of thing you see in fantasy settings.

The article mixes two things: Growing willows into furniture and turning driftwood into furniture. But yes, the seat is harvested, not transplanted. Still-growing furniture would be a heavy burden in maintenance.

Especially in your living room.

Would be really cool though. I hope they start doing that in addition to the harvested ones.

Totally! It looked like the chairs were grown upside-down though, can kinda see why given the topology of most chairs vs tree topology, but hopefully just a bit more and/or stronger training and coppicing, seems like it should be possible to do a right-way-up one.

Coppicing doesn't kill the tree. It's a prehistoric method of managing tree growth. It encourages growth, just as lopping the top of a hedge encourages outwards growth.

Cut the shoots back (or, off, in this case), and the stump is encouraged to grow more new shoots.

It's been going on for centuries, and is one of the best forms of woodland self sufficiency around.

The elves in dwarf fortress do that. However, the elves can harvest their wooden objects without killing the tree. It is a pretty good system except they tend to get very judgmental about dwarves cutting down trees. I do hope Gavin Munro can sell his wares and prosper without reaching elven style haughtiness.

Coppice doesn't kill the trees.

They start with a small to medium size tree that has been cut to (roughly) ground level and train the sprouts that come up off of it.

Reminded of this article. Not exactly the same as the bridges grow in place, but the idea of growing the final product is similar.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/travel/destinations/asia/...

Fun. I have always imagined using trees to build a fence one one side of my house with an annoying neighbor. Zoning rules say that fences can only be 6' (2m) tall, but trees? They just grow and grow :-).

Looking at the picture on the web site of a chair (https://fullgrown.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/National-...) I wonder how durable they will be. Interesting tradeoff between how "complete" the chair is and how much time it takes to grow. There is also pretty clear evidence that its been planed at least somewhat to make for smoother surfaces. Where do you draw the line here? You could put a 1m diameter log into a 5 axis milling machine and have it carve away everything that was not 'chair'. Would that count?

There's a video at the story link that shows them using a draw knife on the bark.

Cupressus Leylandii is the normal tree of choice for neighbor disputes. It's fast growing and light blocking

The chairs look like an absolute torture to sit on. But hey, they took only 7 years to make and cost $2500.

The photo shows a prototype. I expect with a few iterations, the product will become much better. That will take a long time.

How much would a chair cost? 100k?

This would have to be the most laborious and lengthy manufacturing process.

"OPTION 2 Have a chair commissioned and grown especially for you or a loved one. It will take roughly 7-9 years and can be paid monthly over 7 years."

A chair is £2,500 according to TFA, which is epically steep in my world.

I hope the wood is finished to last, heirloom style.

That is an incredibly expensive chair. So the market is very rich people?

Is this a rhetorical question? The market, clearly, is people who want to pay 2.5k for a chair.

> This would have to be the most laborious and lengthy manufacturing process.

In the video from the article, Munro opines that this is actually more time-efficient since you don't need a 60 year old tree to produce lumber that you then have to cut and then fasten together to make the structure. Since his business is still fairly young it would take a long time to market the first batches, but in another 5 years it seems likely that he'd have reserves and you could just buy a chair at your convenience. In terms of laboriousness: it doesn't seem to require lumber milling or furniture-making tools or skills. More work up front, but maybe less work in the long run?

I doubt it. There are machines for doing all the steps in a conventional chair, whereas these are hand-made. Maybe if they can get it down to an efficient process it can be efficient.

A large tree expands, puts down new wood, at a far faster rate than the tiny saplings making these chairs. Per acre, a forest growing naturally would product far more wood. So, for a given acreage, a managed forest would product more wood per year, more chairs, than these art pieces.

Thanks for sharing! I know nothing about making furniture. Just sharing what I saw in the article. I took it to be hearsay since there's no analysis of materials, time or environmental impact. Just a guy and a camera on the internet.

the investment page has some interesting numbers on them.

Looks like they may have expectations of approx 5k Pounds a chair.

The origin story of the idea:

"As a child I had a spinal condition and underwent surgery to straighten my back. Part of the treatment was in effect being grafted on a frame, similar to the way we graft trees. So I appreciated how forms can be shaped - and how long the process can take.

"Around about the same time, my mum had a bonsai tree. The bonsai was left to grow in its own direction and eventually formed itself into the shape of a throne. I was intrigued by this, the thought of a chair being created directly from nature."

Related: Axel Erlandson's Tree Circus. A Swedish immigrant who made amazing treeforms in Santa Cruz CA. Rescued in the 1980s. For example: https://www.core77.com/posts/27264/More-Crooked-Forests-Axel...

> Chairs are priced at £2,500, lamps start at £700 and mirror frames £450.

Damn. At I might have bought one of those chairs for 500€ or so. But considering the time sunk into growing one the price is understandable, of course.

The mirror frames and lamps might be something I would be interested in. Don't think I can justify 2500 for a chair though. Or at least not a wooden one.

Fascinating, quite the artwork. I think I'd like one of the cheaper pieces just for its novelty. Wouldn't trust it to take the load, so maybe the lampshade or something.

Actually you can definitely trust these pieces to take the load... and then some. A piece of wood that naturally grew into a specific shape is much strong along that shape than any kind of joinery you can come up with. This fact has long been known and exploited in whole-tree and roundwood architecture... do some image searches for those terms to see some impressive stuff.

Interesting.

also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_shaping

And there is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests...

The wikipedists are a very strange bunch.

Those chairs don't look very comfortable

It's a cool concept but it needs to scale to be sustainable. Their website says it takes 7 to 9 years on a pre order... How does that work in an age with Prime delivery?

They need an MBA to go in there and shake things up. (Go ahead downvote me). Figure out new materials that grow faster (like bamboo). Forget the grafting bit because that probably takes too much time. And make sure there's a inventory of things people can buy now on their website. People will pay for immediacy.

On another hand I was expecting not to be able to find them on the web, but they're still alive. So kudos to them

I'm no expert, but I feel like there is nothing efficient about this process and the end product will not be as durable as something that can be constructed. So sure, this is fun and whimsical but I don't see any reason to scale it.

Are screws no longer considered sustainable? Not sure what problem this is solving other than -- hey, cool chairs!

Ah a growth hacker! You go do it. Out-compete them with bamboo!

I'm not talking about growth. I'm talking about building a sustainable business around a cool idea that outlives it's founders...

I'm putting their business in context against the luxury retail backdrop that isn't looking too good these days

> I'm not talking about growth.

Then explain the meaning of these statements:

> it needs to scale to be sustainable

Growth.

> Their website says it takes 7 to 9 years on a pre order

Looks like they have more orders on the book than they are currently growing. They could grow!

> They need an MBA to go in there and shake things up.

They can only afford an MBA if they grow.

> And make sure there's a inventory of things people can buy now on their website.

Grow an inventory?

Considering they've spent years on this I'd be pretty surprised if they'd get any value out of giving an MBA a bucket of cash to tell them that bamboo exists

It's a great example of the efficient tree arbitration hypothesis (ETAH).

Bamboo doesn't really grow in a way to do this unless you tried training the shoot to follow a path as it extended that loops around. A bamboo shoot has a telescopic appearance (I have Bambusa Lako) in that it extends and then thickens each segment as it grows. While it grows quickly in height, you still need a few years for it to harden.

According to Apple’s show Home, they grew a massive house out of bamboo in 5 years.

https://www.archdaily.com/937954/new-documentary-series-expl...

It's a hand-made design object sold for a high price. That's a luxury good. They don't need to scale. The limited availability is part of what they sell.

It's a niche market. Sure, it won't make you a billionaire as is but you definitely can make a very decent living this way.

Maybe the MBA can make the trees grow faster.

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