Just When I Was Ready to Give AirBnB a Try | Hacker News Reader

Just When I Was Ready to Give AirBnB a Try

callmeed.posterous.com

89 pointscallmeed69 comments

That was a very unfortunate experience, but in some ways I'd count it as a win for Airbnb. You were going to stay at this person's house, but because of their messaging interface you were able to screen them and realize that they were, in fact, a crazy person.

I think it is very important to look at the reviews of people you stay with. If someone has more that 7-8 reviews, and everyone has positive things to say then the risk is very low.

I have used Airbnb to stay in some incredibly romantic places (Paris with a view of the Eiffel Tower, Boat in the SF Bay) and by picking people that have 20 or more reviews I have found a very high level of service and... competence.

I feel like I have a lot less control as a host, because almost no-one has reviews (it seems like there must be a lot more guests than hosts), but I think there is a lot less variability with a guest because I am controlling the situation. At worst I have a crazy and irritating person in my house for a few days, where as when I'm staying with someone I am depending on them for shelter.

That said I have hosted 34 people and had no crazys yet (knock on wood). In general people are fun to host.

Yeah, ok, so, help a newcomer to AirBnB out: how far in advance should I book a room, and what string of slightly annoying nudges should I sent to my host so that I can verify by their handling of my annoyances that they are not going to pull the rug out from me the day I arrive in their city?

For us, book as soon as you know you want it. We've had people book several months in advance and we make sure to honor them (the "worst" that happened is that somebody got the whole house to themselves for the last few days of their stay while we were in France).

I would just ask what the check in procedure is. If they are on top if it then they will have one. Also, again, look at the reviews. If someone has had a dozen guests who liked it enough to review then you know that they are serious about it, and canceling on a guest would completely ruin the reputation of someone like that.

We would only cancel on a guest if we physically could not host them (room was on fire, etc).

I'm about to start hosting a room in Sydney for a while, any non obvious tips for new hosts? Should I make sure the rooms have locks? I'm leaning towards yes on this already because I think it will just make them feel safer and such, but I don't know anyone else who actually hosts so I'm pretty lost at this stage. Any advice appreciated.

I want to host at some point and would really be interested if you would write a small piece on your experiences hosting, and what the best practices are regarding leaving your stuff in the apartment / safety / dealing with issues etc etc?

Hey Erik,

I'm very sorry that you had this experience on Airbnb. However, I'm very glad that it has come to our attention.

Airbnb operates as a trusted community marketplace that thrives on community engagement, not anonymity. Building trust is not an easy mission, but it is a mission to which we very are committed. We have very stringent quality and conduct control standards that we require both hosts and guests to abide by. We rely heavily on direct feedback from our users through our community support team and transaction based reviews in order to remain a trusted place for people from around the world to book, list and discover unique spaces. We find the behavior of this host to be unacceptable and have since followed up with them directly. We invite anyone who has similar experiences to reach out to us directly in these instances, which we take very seriously.

As mentioned by someone else, taking payments offline is not something we allow our hosts to do. Hosts, if they so require it, have the ability to charge cleaning fees and security deposits through our service, allowing the guest a seamless, safe and secure booking experience. Our payment process was designed to prevent fraud and scams which are rampant on other sites, where payments are often sent through the mail between strangers, with no recourse.

Instances like this remind us that we have a long way to go to making Airbnb the best place in the world for people to find the space they need. While we are disappointed that you had a bad experience, we truly appreciate your honest feedback, which challenges us to keep building to achieve our mission.

Christopher Lukezic, Airbnb employee

Prediction: Someone will eventually get assaulted or worse at a host's place. The media will then take that incident and run headlines like "The AirBNB rapist", "AirBNB, Is it SAFE??". Local mayors urged by hotel campaign donors will launch an aggressive campaign against the company based on this one incident in tens of thousands.

"However, it’s (the internet) very new to us. Newsreaders still feel it is worth a special and rather worrying mention if, for instance, a crime was planned by people ‘over the Internet.’ They don’t bother to mention when criminals use the telephone or the M4, or discuss their dastardly plans ‘over a cup of tea,’ though each of these was new and controversial in their day"

Douglas Adams, 1999 http://www.douglasadams.com/dna/19990901-00-a.html

Nowadays, people are plotting revolutions and toppling governments "over the Internet". So if anything, it's just gotten worse.

Usually they are plotting revolutions "on social networks" and "using twitter" to coordinate strikes.

And Lifetime will make a movie out of it ...

http://www.mylifetime.com/movies/the-craigslist-killer

That's probably true, but it's more a sign that they've crossed the chasm to being mainstream than something that'd matter. See also: Craigslist

We were/are planning on using AirBnB to book a place for us and the kids in NYC. This is exactly the kind of thing that will keep us from doing it. Note that you don't even have to be a psychopath to create a nuclear problem for our trip; all you have to do is, at the last minute, decide "your profile is too hidden!" and cancel our room, so that we show up and have no place to stay.

I reallllly want this service to work. But the concept is already so intrinsically out of my comfort zone that it doesn't take much of a nudge to send me back to super-pricey VRBO.

I really believe that Airbnb is far safer than VRBO. With VRBO you are exchanging personal information and money directly with an unknown 3rd party. In contrast, Airbnb has a trusted reputation system and handles all payments (i.e., both guest and host have verified financial accounts in order for money to be transfered). Airbnb even witholds payment to the host until 24 hours after you check-in, giving you time to contact customer service if you're not getting what you signed-up for.

You might want to try on a trip where it's just you and in a place where you know you can get a hotel if things don't work out. It becomes higher risk when you're bring kids / partner too and have to keep everyone happy.

AirBnB / couch surfing style sites are likely to work better for people with somewhat flexible schedules that can accommodate potentially being stranded and having to find a hotel at the last minute. In exchange for a small risk you meet local people in an informal way that you just can't get if you stay in a hotel.

AirBnB isn't a couch surfing site. It competes directly with sites like VRBO.

I'm not even remotely interested in meeting the typical person who wants to let out a room, but I'm happy to pay a decent premium over a midrange hotel to get an apartment instead of a hotel room, and have been happy every time I've done that.

I didn't say it was a couch surfing site. There are plenty of people who you wouldn't want to meet, but I've also seen a phd running a high tech startup on it, who might be more interesting.

If you're going somewhere regularly you can try a place once and then decide whether you want to stay there more often. There are some nice apartments as you say.

AirBnB is a combination of vrbo and couch surfing. It would be interesting to see real stats but my wager would be that the room rentals are doing better than the full apartment rentals.

Why are you willing to pay more to stay in someone's apartment than to stay in a hotel?

For instance, to be in the neighborhood you are actually visiting. Midrange hotels are often in lame neighborhoods.

Hotels are cramped and uncomfortable.

The latter (just kidding, not really available!) happened to me a lot in NYC, and a few times in Australia.

There is a weird sweet spot for AirBnB rental timing. If it's too far in advance the person doesn't know if they are going to be around to give you keys, or gone so that you can stay there. If it's too soon they won't have time to straighten up. I'm guessing the best luck happens around 4 days in advance, with a spot that looks like a reposted vrbo listing. (I.e. a semi-pro)

Also I think sometime in may short term AirBnB listings are effectively banned in NYC.

A good tip: If you find yourself screwed at the last minute because of that (or you're just in a tight spot and really need a place for the night) try the standby list feature that they have. I've tried this twice, once in Boston and once in NY and within 15 minutes the replies come pouring in, often at a discounted rate by people who want to fill their rooms for the same night.

Sadly, AirBnB has failed for me more than 90% of the time. In NYC there were overtly shady people, such as a dude who had at least 3 accounts, 2 of which he would pose as women. However, the biggest problems are flakes and people who list their apartment as being available when it really isn't. To AirBnB's credit, housing in NYC is shady to begin with, and the one time it worked, it was great.

So far about 50% of the rooms I've tried to book on AirBNB turned out to be "not available", even though they were listed as available on the site. It's the fault of flaky hosts but these people aren't being screened effectively at present.

It's sad to say this is true. In many cases, it's just as cheap, if not cheaper, to use Starwood SPG.com or Priceline, plus you get free points or have points to use from a credit card. You also know that while it won't be as personalized an experience as AirBnB, you know that bedsheets will be clean, there is maid service, decent amenities (like a pool or workout room), and room service often at the same price for AirBnB. And you also earn points for your stay.

Traveling in Australia I found the prices for nicer AirBnB listings were the same as many hotels or weekly apartments. It was easier to just check out weekly rentals posted in the window of of a realty office. Plus, in Australia the listed price is the price, whereas AirBnB drags in the obnoxious American custom of tacking on extra fees right at the very end of the transaction.

However, I will say that the one time AirBnB worked for me, the person was renting out their apartment like a hotel. She had a maid clean it up and even left me mini soaps. It was way better than a hotel.

To me this message of yours is a learning to make note of: "Plus, in Australia the listed price is the price, whereas AirBnB drags in the obnoxious American custom of tacking on extra fees right at the very end of the transaction."

When we take any service to a different country / continent, we need to take into account the local practices of the place (especially pricing) and build it into the system, wherever possible.

As an American, I can tell you that we find the practice of tacking on fees just as obnoxious as everyone else does. If you're a business extending the 'courtesy' of posting actual prices to other countries, we'd appreciate it if you'd also do it for us.

My buddy Seth Porges has a great place to stay in bklyn.

http://www.airbnb.com/rooms/24143

Stay there, you won't regret it.

That apartment looks nice, but maujer street truly sucks. After living there for 18 months, I have vowed never to set foot in bushburg again.

UPDATE: Less than 2 hours after submitting a ticket to AirBnB, one of their staff members called me on the phone. That alone is quite impressive and shows that they care about these issues.

She gave me some good tips (which most of you have already mentioned): (1) use people with good review, (2) use people with high response rates, etc.

As an update that gives me even less confidence in the system.

Imagine you started using paypal when it first came out, got ripped off and then paypal messaged you saying 'hey, next time try using someone with a higher rating'.

All it shows is that they've got no handle on vetting and by the sound of it absolutely no clue how they're going to start dealing with it either.

The other messages here saying contact 5-10 people first to weed the wackos, jeezus, AirBnB is actually starting to sound dangerous.

It's similar to eBay - they give you the necessary information to make an informed decision... but don't tell novice users how to use this information.

For eBay, how important is a seller's rating? What should I weigh more heavily, raw points or percentage? Does the Power Seller badge really mean anything? What if the guy sells $5 trinkets normally but is trying to rip me off with a $5000 item? The list goes on, there's no education, only trial by fire.

It seems like AirBnb is falling into the same trap. AirBnb needs to come up with its own measurement of reliability/sketchiness and show this to the user, either explicitly or in search ordering. Users/postings that drop below a certain bar (or just plain unproven users) need to be marked for novice users so that they know to tread more carefully.

It's not a trap -- there is no way EBay can provide all of the necessary information that would stop people from getting scammed since someone would simply try a new trick that wasn't listed in the documentation. It isn't simply "trial by fire," but suspicious until proven otherwise, a general tact that works well on the internet and among strangers that want your money.

Anyways, most of this is common sense. Examine the number of positive reviews in the past six months. Examine the ratio of positive to negative. Examine the nature of negative reviews. If buying something expensive, verify some other items sold were also expensive. Buy via paypal or something else that includes buyer protection.

People will have to learn the same sort of way to navigate airbnb.

Why is this Airbnb's fault? I just finished traveling Europe while using Airbnb and never had a problem. Why? I message at least 5-10 people, and I talked all first through the message function, making sure they're not insane (the fact they're charging you extra was a good warning sign there). If the person acted shady/mean/impatient/etc, I simply removed that place from my choices.

The one time I had an issue (one cancelled on me less than a week before arriving), Airbnb gave me a $50 certificate as apology and helped me rebook a new place pronto.

Yeah, there are weird people on there, but it's easy to weed them out.

I would definitely report the person to Airbnb, since they're charging extra (which is against the rules).

I'm not saying it's AirBnB's fault, but it's definitely an issue they'll need to constantly address as they grow.

I did report them but the you bring up a good point about charging extra deposit fees. As a new user, I have no idea that such practices are against the rules ... so it didn't really raise a flag for me.

It is not Airbnb's fault, but he is just pointing out that the growth of the service will bring more shady people and currently there is no easy way to weed out those shady people.

I am a 24 year old female and in the last three years I have couchsurfered in Europe (alone, with another female, and with a male), found a ride on craigslist from a male (in the US), hitchhiked across France (with a male), and volunteered and lived on farms in Europe (alone and with a male). I had no problems and loved the experiences I had with all of them. The only issue I know of was someone who was a bit rude to one of her hosts because she was prejudiced against staying with someone older than 20. I think that is indicative of the inherent issues with AirBnB-you must have the right mindset to welcome new experiences, be a bit flexible, and make good decisions when choosing a place. It won't be for everyone, or at least the shared spaces may not be for everyone. I have been a huge fan of AirBnB since I learned of them because I think they provide a great (superior to couchsurfing) platform for finding and evaluating hosts and they take away the many of the weird rules that many couchsurfing hosts developed to allow someone to stay with them. They made it financially beneficial to hosts who are providing a great service and seem to have a great support system in place in addition to their information on using the site successfully. I'm excited to try AirBnB in SF when I visit in May, even if my friends stay separately in a hotel, and I hope to hear back from my application to work with them.

While this AirBnB exchange definitely wigs me out a little, I've had enough friends in the corporate hotel business to know that there are weirdos and creeps everywhere. That's not to say that hotels are as unsafe as AirBnB, but I do think there is a false sense of security that comes with them. People are people.

I have never used AirBnB, but my husband and I booked a place in San Francisco for May. We were picky about who we selected, and the person renting the guesthouse is a local restauranteur who seems like a real person on Google. I am stoked about the neighborhood and price. For me, it's worth the risk. I really don't like staying in hotels (noise, lack of cleanliness, annoying patrons), and I'm willing to take a gamble on anything that could be a sustainable alternative.

What is the real problem here? Am I missing something? It looks like the host was rude. He said he'd report the author to the police, which seems pretty dubious. Report him for what?

Annoying / rude / dumb / shady people exist all over the internet, but we learn to notice and deal with them, and we don't let this ruin the internet for us. So why not do the same on AirBNB? Common sense practices prevail here, similar to ebay: Check other users' previous feedback on the host, tell another person where you're going before you go there etc.

The worst enemy an online community has are trolls. The worst enemy an online community like AirBnB has are psychos and serial killers.

I really don't get this startup. Might as well post "I need somewhere to crash" on Craigslist.

Staying on Airbnb is really quite different than crashing somewhere on Craigslist.

Airbnb: - has a fair reputation system with real user reviews - handles all payments - withholds payment to the host until 24 hours after your stay begins - has 24 hour customer service line to help

With Craigslist: - there's no reputation system - you have to coordinate payments directly with an unknown 3rd party - there's no one you can call

I haven't even gone into the differences in how Airbnb facilitates your search for accommodations. Airbnb and Craigslist are fundamentally different services.

You can see reviews of the hosts, pictures of the rooms, and compare with other places. That certainly weeds out the psychos and serial killers way more than a random posting Craigslist.

How well have pictures and reviews worked for eBay? And how do the standards for eBay compare to those for AirBnB?

I don't know about the pictures thing, but the reputation system works pretty damn well. I buy stuff off of ebay regularly and find that especially high profile sellers do everything they can to keep their reputation up, because otherwise they lose potential clients.

You just really do need to ingrain into the community that a good reputation is essential, damnit, and don't buy from someone that doesn't have one. Then the sellers conform to that.

I was under the impression that reputation on eBay was gameable, so much so that I actively avoid eBay.

EBay's reputation system is a joke People routinely create fake accounts, farm for reputation by making lots of low-value purchases, then wait a few weeks until you cannot browse the details of their purchase history.

Once that happens, they move from buying or selling recipes for $0.99 to trading laptops, scam a few people, then vanish.

Actually eBay is quite safe to buy if you pay via Paypal. eBay has a policy of 45 day return period during which you can file a case in eBay resolution center under "item significantly not as described" and send the item back to the seller, eBay will then refund the full amount you paid to the seller (price + shipping). However, you have to pay for the return shipping. I believe payments via Paypal on a 3rd party website are also covered by the same policy. This makes it very safe to buy from eBay or through Paypal. I feel more secure buying from eBay then buying from a local retailer.

The reputation system is probably (read likely) gameable, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have any value. Ebay has a very buyer friendly system system that the risk of getting scammed is pretty low if you follow the rules set for Paypal.

How so? I think you can trick people into reviewing before they get their item by prompting feedback with an email, but not everyone falls for that and also it's sort of hard to gather substantial reputation like that (100+)

Of course. If I can see an online photo with good comments, it must be legit. My bad.

Something similar happened to chouchsurfing. At the beginning it was a small community with a high level of trust and people knew what it was about, and behaved accordingly. Then it grew too much and you find all kind of users, many who just think that's a way to sleep for free and who avoid interaction with their hosts. I guess airbnb will have to adapt (I'm pretty sure they are aware of the problem) and find ways to filter out the bad guys. There's gonna be many more of them as soon as they find out the opportunity.

I've used AirBnB a couple times in DC and it worked out really well. Go with the people who have been heavily reviewed/starred the first time you use the service and you shouldn't go wrong. Also maybe try going with places where you're getting the entire apartment and not just a room or couch. A bit more expensive, but again for your first time it may give you a little more peace of mind.

It seems like the host thought you were stringing them along and has overreacted. I'd try to imagine how they were feeling before we call them crazy though, whether you book or not might affect them in all sorts of ways. Do they need to change their plans for the weekend to accommodate you being there? Did they decline a booking from someone else while waiting for you to commit? Are they hard up for cash and really need the extra dollars your booking could bring? They might be pressured by all sorts of things and just waiting for that confirmation email. For a weekend booking, still no commitment by Thursday would have made me a bit nervous as a host too.

Of course they could just be imbalanced, and that's a risk you take. Part of Airbnb's appeal is that it creates experiences for you that you wouldn't get staying at a hotel. If you are travelling with children, this might be less of a draw for you as safety becomes a bigger concern; you can minimise the risk by only booking somewhere that has a lot of positive reviews and a good feel to it.

Problem is you can't rate a host unless you've stayed there, so in this case, the OP couldn't rate the host as bad because he didn't end up staying there.

This is an issue that needs to be addressed, but overall, I love Air BnB.

I've never used AirBnB myself but I've always thought about this as well. Clearly both parties should be aware they're taking a risk staying at a strangers place, and while it'd be great to be able to trust everybody in this world, sadly we can't.

I've no idea why but the AirBnB model really doesn't appeal to me, for concerns that follow this issue. I fear ending up at some crazy person's home who will treat me like this home owner did - but in person when I'm kind of trapped at their house.

Having grown up in an expensive city to visit (London) I can see the attraction for AirBnB in cities like London, NYC and SF but I would still take a carefully researched price negotiated/discounted hotel room over staying on someone's couch who I didn't know.

Ugh, cut and paste error on this (the stupid story about google from techcrunch). I hate it when Hacker News server restarts and thus I can't submit a comment on a window/tab I've had open for a while, sigh.

I intended to post:

I've had great luck with AirBnB in some markets (Japan, USA) and bad luck in others (Thailand). It's great if you're flexible, but for business travel, or if you're arriving late at night after a flight is delayed, it's really convenient having a 24h hotel desk and simple checkin.

The biggest friction with AirBnB for me is the key exchange and "onboarding" process at a new property. I hope there is a technological solution to this.

I use AirBnB for tons of cheap startup travel - AmA ;-)

Great: an AirBnB host got me a slot to speak at Ignite SXSW Good: $30 a night in a private room in Boston in a great building near MIT - always go there Still Good: I've booked the night before and never had people flake.

Bad: I once had to stay in a disgusting house the smell like rodents - my honest review prompted mega-psycho bitch response - I had to edit my previous post to warn people that she did that too - which sort of means the system works I guess...

I think peoples use of AirBNB is all about their capacity for risk/adventure.

A good friend has had hookers and druggies stay at his place through AirBNB, but people who were otherwise quite nice people. Just because they had a different life style didn't make them dangerous and he's still renting his room out.

We've had three people stay at our place so far and they've all been awesome. Next month half our rent for our three bedroom house will be covered by one AirBNB tenant and we'll make a new friend.

I've attempted to stay at an AirBnB several times. It definitely feels like a niche market. I use it because I think it's cheaper. But, people on AirBnB(the ones that seem safe) seem to charge regular hotel rates that I end up choosing a hostel instead.

Occasionally you find some hidden treasures and friends of mine have reported having an entire apartment to themselves in NYC for a fraction of the cost of a hotel.

Whoa, with no ill thought towards the AirBnB guys, I need to say that their service must not be very popular with women. While backpacking with a small group in Europe, the biggest obstacle to staying in some hostels was the discomfort amongst the women. First and foremost thing on their mind, was security and safety. How does a service like AirBnB attempt, if at all try, to fix this issue ?

I agree. I'd be very nervous if my wife were a regular user of AirBNB.

IMO, this service will slowly transform into a platform for independent hotels and real BNB's. Especially since the prices are so high -- why would I want to deal with people when I can stay in a nice hotel in a central business district for approximately the same price?

As someone who hasn't used it before, does Airbnb have a "seller rating" of sorts?

Seems necessary.

Yes, he probably could have avoided this by checking the reviews of his prospective host.

Yes. Airbnb has a balanced and authentic review system that lets you read what previous guests had to say about a listing.

Yeah - this has convinced me to not use AirBNB until/unless this sort of thing gets straightened out

AirBnB is for hippies - a shrinking demographic.

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