Judge rules Seattle media companies must hand over protest images to police
seattletimes.com
seattletimes.com
One important thing about warrants and subpoenas is that they are often limited to strictly collecting data related to a specific investigation - not a fishing expedition.
> The judge placed some limits on the subpoena. He said police could use the images to identify suspects only in the arson and gun theft investigations. Detectives could not use the photos or video to pursue suspects in vandalism or other lesser crimes — even if police found such evidence.
> The subpoena would also be limited to professional camera equipment and would exclude reporters’ cell phone photos and videos.
This seems to fit the criteria - especially since police firearms were stolen.
The only red flag is that they are asking 5x different news organization to hand over journalist's raw recordings. I'd be highly skeptical of this subpoena if I was a judge - unless they could prove the journalists were likely the only ones at the time recording the incident, that they know were present, and it didn't apply to material involved in any specific reporting. Broad footage taken at a public event is always less concerning and less protected.
But at the same time tons of people are recording protests besides journalists and it might just be laziness on the police's part. Although that said, sometimes rioters intimidate people trying to film crimes being committed (as seen here: https://old.reddit.com/r/ActualPublicFreakouts/comments/hu9l...). And the police claim "the department was at a dead end in its investigations." So I'm not sure much outrage is warranted here, but I'd still probably lean on the safe side.
I mean let's be honest. They are going to feed it into facial recognition, identify their targets and then gather whatever additional evidence. They could then potentially present a new case with evidence external to the data collection and construct a narrative around that.
I think it's slippery.
Parallel reconstruction has been documented. There is a risk what you say will happen.
Do you, in good faith, honestly believe the police won't attempt to use the evidence for any and all means they deem necessary?
It's like the leaks that came out not too long ago, how even the FBI was querying NSA databases when they suspected someone of being a criminal.... I don't even need to say more to demonstrate how abusive the "law enforcement" (blackmail) system is.
For reference, that's a 2 by 2 block centered around Westlake Station.
A "warrant" can be rubber stamped to exfil all of your internet data, phone records, credit card statements, to raid your home or business...
All gestapo techniques. I'm very glad we have encryption and other related technologies that can prevent this type of tyranny.
With all of the tech I design, privacy is the number one priority. That includes being warrant-proof.
Riots are when people assemble and commit crimes. Especially felony crimes like arson, destruction of property, etc.
These are riots.
If we could know for sure the police weren't going to abuse their authority, there would have been neither protests nor riots.
I think this claim lost any validity long, long ago.
As long as you want to paint all protesters as rioters, then to be consistent you have to put all of the police into the same bucket as well.
No sane person can look at the riots and say this is protest it stopped being that long ago.
It stopped being that the moment it turned into riots.
Those still participating are complicit at the very least and I would hazard a guess are well fucking aware of what they're doing.
I should clarify, I am well aware there are still ongoing peaceful protests.
Those are not an issue, and nobody on this side is confusing them or labelling them as rioters.
If you want to see what biased but relatively fair coverage of this, go watch tim pool on youtube. There is a bit of exaggeration but by and large what he speaks is mostly pretty solid reasoning.
The extreme left has taken over this issue and is destroying our chances at finally removing trump. And I'm pissed about this, because the issues these riots started over are real, and need resolution, but these riots don't result in this outcome.
They result in more people falling down the right side of things.
Plenty of us sane people can still see the protests going on, the actual riots are not that common but are covered disproportionately by the press (but especially by FoxNews who is making out Portland and Seattle as apocalyptic hellscapes). I assume you are either in Portland and just not paying attention or you are getting all your information from the media.
I am saying what we have here is not protest. Its rioting.
I don't know what law enforcement have to do with this.
The thread started out with someone arguing that the "protests" are actually "riots". Someone else replied by pointing out "because there's riots and protests", which are not the same thing.
So then you replied with, "The cops are after evidence on arson and gun theft, not protests, as the headline says." – which I took (perhaps mistakenly) as an argument that the media's footage should not be considered as innocuous "protest footage", because the cops believe that it contains evidence of crimes.
But that seems like begging the question? Ignoring the whole "innocent until proven guilty" concept (two suspects have been arrested and charged, but not tried), it seems problematic to argue that the media should handover its riot footage on the basis that the police believe it contains evidence of riotous activity.
Just as it would be problematic to characterize someone's personal email account as being non-innocuous, on the basis of what the police assert they might find if they do a few keyword searches of it.
The way this part was written in context was hard to parse for me - on first read it seemed that you were arguing that it would be fair to say that you were complicit. This reply shows that you intended this in a more hyperbolic way, or in such a way that you would mock-suggest that “surely this would not be fair,” which is obvious when I already know your meaning, but didn’t seem clear to me on first read.
Naturally large scale protests are taking place. Israel protests are usually very tame, no looting and practically no violence,atleast when to what you see in French or the US.
The most violent things protesters did was sitting on the road (which was blocked by police) in front of the PM residence. This did not stop media controlled by Netanyahu to pump the notion that these protesters are all rioters and anarchists. While a lot of them are yound middle class educated family people, Led by 60-70 yo without any political aspiration.
So when the person being protested against calls the protesters rioters, I tend to take it with a grain of salt.
To be frank, i don't know about the US, but violence in French protest used to be well-contained and limited to a few buildings (often a mcdonald, a bank or two and sometime a Tesla, nothing an assurance wouldn't cover, and free time for a dozen employee during the repairs) until recently when lawkeeping doctrine were changed to avoid making our government looking like they lost.
Violence from protesters used to be limited to black blocks, and black blocks are organized and carefull, attached to symbols. You could predict which batiment could be targeted ahaed of time, take preventive mesure for those batiments. They never put fire in commercial building if there were occupied appartement nearby.
Then, because of a macdonald destruction that looked bad on a camera (despite looking really, really good for anybody aware of what lawkeeping really is about: 3 minor injuries, 90 BB arrested for a quarter of a million of property damage), police were asked to start protecting batiment.
That made mobile brigade and CRS immobile and unable to follow and limit property destruction, so a minister door was fractured.
Easy solution, just had more police. even if the ones we add are not trained in lawkeeping at all and are used to anti-drugs operation and are a bit trigger-happy. And also, change the doctrine, instead of letting black blocks destroying property to scare protesters off and nest BB more easely, meet them earlier. If "normals" protester don't want to be hurt, they shouldn't be near these black blocks!
We are two deaths, three hands, around twenty eyes, battered poicemen and a dropping confidence in the police after those "clever" decisions.
Violence call for violence, and now the protester are really violent. Their rights.
So yes, violence calls for violence. But, we must break the cycle, I think nonviolent resistant is the only way to go.
Sadly, a lot of the media in Israel is either controlled by netanyahu via a web of corrupt interests or out right fear. Now it's mainly commercial fear, but he has been targeting and enflaming against top tier journalists that won't back down. Anyway, they don't show the peacful side of the protest.
:Facepalm:
See: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/10/protes...
Also, Jason Stanley’s book, “How Fascism Works” also has a write up on this usage of language too.
No, they’re not. What a ridiculous stretch to further broaden and water down what is considered racism.
Learn some history.
This is also why Third Party Doctrine is screaming for reassessment in the wake of expanded capabilities for meta information collection, storage and reproduction.
In the past, your recordings/pictures/artifacts of reporting were physical things that cost time, money, and effort to reproduce. No one would want to ask for anymore than is absolutely necessary due to the inconvenience. Nowadays, with terabytes of data being able to be stored in the palm of one's hand, and copied, moved in minutes, there is a much greater risk for old precedents to turn into dangerous overreach based upon the sheer exaggeration of the capability to get blood from the stone of a photograph.
Get a picture with a partial match in a database of a subject? Spin by their residence with a a Stingray and sniff some IMEI's. Take that to a telco, Google, or a data broker, and geofence. Or look at the latest data dump acquired and see if you can match them with some data point in the area.
In this age, the things we can do with data scare the ever loving bajeezus out of me, and it's not that I don't want LE to be unable to do their jobs, but we really need to get a societal handle on how we treat digital footprint. Otherwise, it's not that far to a world nobody wants to see or live.