A random sampling of internet service prices around the world
cheapskatesguide.org
cheapskatesguide.org
Unlimited data mobile 4G costs 100UAH per month (~9 EUR / ~$11 USD). Fast enough that a 300GB backup/recovery is no problem.
Home internet I don't actually pay for (I live in a rental), but the current plan costs the owner 200 UAH per month (~6 EUR / ~$7 USD), "gigabit port", unlimited data (realistic speed is up to 250 up/down).
Pretty sure there is some kind of "combo deal" for both, and I think the home internet price includes TV.
At these low prices, I'm not really interested in shopping around or checking the details of what I'm actually paying for - it's all incredibly cheap and fast enough.
E.g. https://www.digiromania.ro/servicii/internet/internet-fix/fi...
I’ve had this package for 6 years at least, in 3 different cities. It’s been the same everywhere.
This is the best/cheapest connection I have had; my last connection in NY was 20x5 for $96/mo, also with my own modem. The cable company often tries to sell me a contract TV plan, in exchange for a small temporary package discount, but I un-want TV, so this is not appealing. Also, I hear that in some countries you can't advertise prices that omit tax and surcharges, but here you can.
So I think the US prices in the table are basically fake, where the real prices are about ~2x in my experiance. Just curious whether the prices in other countries are real.
Like can you really get internet for the equivalent of 30-40USD/mo?
I'm doubtful that any of these prices are representative of what the majority of the population has access to.
Ting sells 5 Mbps symmetric for $19/mo.
Do you guys have especially rubbish cable internet in the US? Or especially amazing DSL? Cable is much better where I am in Into than DSL.
Excluding cable internet seems like a really terrible idea if you're trying to compare prices for broadband in the US.
Edit: units
A part of that is due to thin twisted-pair phone wiring, which is 26AWG instead of 20AWG (0.8mm)[1] in parts of Europe, and presumably because the country is huge[2], but still, I get better service over DSL than cable (in Eastern Europe) because DSL is a dedicated connection from the CPE (modem) to the DSLAM (the central office equipment).
Most of the congestion is on the last-mile network from the CO to the customer premises, so having a dedicated link provides a much more stable connection.
DOCSIS works over CATV cable, which is a shared medium and it is not electrically isolated, so i.e. neighbors can create noise for you if they have badly designed or malfunctioning devices.
VDSL2 35b supports up to 300/100 Mbps for local loops of 300m or less (984 feet), and 35b degrades gracefully to VDSL2 17a for up to 25/4 Mbps at 1300m (0.8 miles). So, in densely populated areas, xDSL would work much better than cable, for people who want a stable connection.
Cable is oversold and can provide a small percent of the speed sold at any time, but usually 90% of the rated speed is available in off-peak intervals.
Additionally, cable has higher ping times than xDSL and more complex CPE that must be controlled by the ISP (even if you buy your own, the CMTS will reprogram it with a configuration file on boot, and the ISP can open any backdoor they want).
Compared to this, DSL CPE can be bought from anywhere and used on any network without ISP interference because DSL is a dedicated medium so there is no trusted part of CPE needed to limit the speed to the user, compared to cable where the CM must have a "trusted" part that the user can't control which will do access control, encryption and also QoS and speed limiting.
[1] thinner wires have higher attenuation on high frequencies and/or longer distances
[2] sparsely populated area usually means higher average local loop length
The best answer I can give to your opening question is "because the telecom companies are rabidly anti-consumer." They absolutely do not want to upgrade their equipment, since at least the mid-'90s.
For a while, Verizon was neglecting its copper in favour of fibre, at least in densely-populated areas (in sparsely-populated areas, it just neglected its copper in favour of nothing). Now, so far as I can tell, it has a deliberate strategy of abandoning copper to push people onto its wireless service, which has vastly higher margins and much less regulation (and different regulations, where it has them).
Just replacing the central office equipment is enough to improve speeds for a larger and larger percentage of users served by the DSLAM in the telephone exchange.
The USA, being a technological superpower for decades, surely has enough resources to replace a few pieces of equipment in the CO and offer users something better.
This is very strange because the new equipment can actually lower costs for the ISP because it is more efficient, easier to manage, more reliable and more compact.
I do not have insight to understand the regulatory landscape and market conditions, however the more I think about it the less of a point I have.
I think you are right about the answer [2], I keep trying to find technical excuses but can't.
This is a sad thing really.
Especially since it costs the same [3] to run the networks in .. [eastern european countries], USA, Russia, Germany, France, Belgium, Australia. No matter the diversity of terrain, the vast scale of the territory, the weather conditions, population density, there is an analogue to USA somewhere, and they don't have it that bad.
[1] neglecting copper in favor of fiber
[2] "because the telecom companies are rabidly anti-consumer."
[3] in general the maintenance and personnel costs may differ due to regulation and market conditions but the equipment costs the same everywhere, and where there is a higher market baseline cost for labor, the ISP can raise the price of services
In contrast, Comcast/Xfinity have not caused any problems at all for me over the 10+ years I've been a subscriber. Also Comcast was able to give us 300 megabit cable for less than the cost of 75 megabit fiber from Ziply. So it wasn't even comparable.
So yeah, DSL/FTTH might be more technically capable, but it's only as strong as the company providing the service.
In my country, there are people intentionally staying on a cable ISP for their excellent support and the fact they carry non-government non-right-wing channels which are unwanted on other government-controlled ISPs (i.e. CNN affiliate). The cable ISP is slower and more expensive (up to 100% more) than FTTH at the government owned telco, but people really appreciate having problems fixed in a day after one call and not an agonizing process lasting months(!!) that often just ends with them cancelling your contract and waiving the early cancellation fee, and then blacklisting your location from getting service because it is problematic.
Also funnily enough we had that same problem with billing, it lasted for 18 months, during which time no correct bills were sent, no payments were logged and nobody's service was shut off for non-payment. The ISP mostly forgave the debts [1] of all customers because they couldn't keep track of it. I first because a user just as it happened and haven't paid a year due to them messing up my discounted rate and then just telling me not to pay and sending a corrected bill for 1,00 RSD (basically free) because they can't guarrantee they will log the payment properly. Hilarious really.
[1] and reported the biggest lost since 1980s when it was founded, but hey it's government owned, the people will eat the debt haha /s
Can you elaborate on this? Is it a difference of one millisecond, a few milliseconds, or tens of milliseconds? Is technical (eg. something baked into the DOCSIS standard), or an implementation thing?
The reason is simply because DOCSIS is working on a shared medium so in certain cases you have to wait for others to stop transmitting on your channel so you can transmit + there are much more unpredictable errors due to RF noise caused by having a lot of devices share a "single cable" (it's not REALLY single cable, it's split, but all noise will end up on the one feed to the CMTS) and also it's quite easy to get noise from neighbors.
Noise is often hard to solve (find the source of it), i.e. it's a household with a bad set top box power supply sending low voltage AC into the cable network.
Problems can be solved, and in some cities DOCSIS works very well, but often times it doesn't, and when it doesn't it's really difficult to fix it other than doing a node split (i.e. adding a new CMTS and moving half of the users to it) and proactively putting filters in everyone's house and controlling installations.
[1] more on DOCSIS compared to DSL
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_VDSL_and_VDSL2_deploym...
VDSL supports at least 55Mb/s down.
Also the biggest cable providers were historically bad at customer service unless you took the business plan for twice the price. If cable is even available at all (never was available where I lived, in a big city).
My takeaway simply is that it's not about the technology, but the ISP handling it.
Here in Canada, "cable internet" is (and has been for years) a fiber run to the neighbourhood and/or apartment-building head-end switch, with coax runs up from there to individual dwellings. There really isn't any contention on the bandwidth of the shared coax medium any more. It's like an office that has one Ethernet hub per four-cubicle workgroup, with the hubs all connected to an Ethernet switch. Collision avoidance / channel narrowing, despite being theoretically possible at the hub level, doesn't really come up with so few transmitters connected to each hub.
DSL was only ever in the 3mbps down range, but cable easily hits the 100 range.
When I last had DSL (2016) I had 40mbs down/5mbs up. Now I have fiber at 1gbs symmetrical for $65/mo.
What do you mean?
Now i started doing photography as a hobby, and boy, are those raw files large. 24mb each. Last weekend i was on a short trip with friends, 75 GB of raw photos and videos. Gotta back those up, the faster the better.
You can also use versionning when you sync your files.
I do file backup of my photos, documents, invoices, and other random things I've setup for backup.
Edit: add more info
So you can't have it on a single device. What it allows is to have 2 computers, each one with their own full 1 GBps link.
In practice, it is mostly useless. I have the 1 GBbs plan on the same provider (Orange) and I generally only get full speed on speed tests, and the only times I use a significant fraction of my bandwidth is on the occasional large download (ex: games).
Free, the other ISP, is known for its ludicrous speeds at the end point but from my experience a few years ago, it is seriously limited by its infrastructure. So you my get 5 Gbps on the local loop, but you will never get these speeds on the greater internet.
Basically, 1Gbps+ fiber makes your internet connection somebody else's problem. The last mile stops being the limiting factor.
Consumer grade 10Gbit ethernet and fiber NICs exist, and for fairly cheap too.
From https://lafibre.info/free-les-news/keynote-freebox-pop/.
Also on my last cable account I randomly went on the website to see what their current rates were, and noticed they were offering 2x the speed to new subscribers for the same I was paying. I called to ask about it and they told me the faster plan was the default but that I’d been grandfathered into the slower plan (thanks!), but that they could upgrade me if I wanted. It must be intentional that speeds and prices are super opaque.
I looked out because my house is one of the last three that they have fiber going to (aerial). I don't know why they stopped rolling out the fiber halfway down the street, but they did. Luckily for me I was able to get away from terrible Comcast gigabit.
Telekom Srbija (incumbent national provider) (note: all prices with 24 month contract, 6.48$/mo mandatory landline fee should be added, VAT is included) - 20/4 Mbps on VDSL2 - 16.69$/mo - 100/10 Mbps on VDSL2 - 23.58$/mo - 200/80 Mbps on GPON - 33.40$/mo - 1000/400 Mbps on GPON - 88.41$/mo
Orion telekom (alternative provider) (note: all prices with 24 month contract, VAT is included) - 10/1 Mbps on WISP/ADSL2+ - 14.73$/mo - 100/10 Mbps on VDSL2 - 18.66$/mo "Special" offer without contract for GPON: - 200/10 Mbps - 9.83$/mo - 500/20 Mbps - 14.74$/mo - 1000/50 Mbps - 24.57$/mo
Average monthly wage is 589$, minimum is 294$, yearly minimum 3528$, average 7068$.
Yes there's a fibre optic cable in there somewhere, and it terminates a bit closer to my home than old fashioned DSL, but it's still fundementally DSL. It's just a slightly shorter length of copper wire.
then again there would be practically no fibre penetration without this "hack" ;-)
It's actually not even entirely uncommon for people to not have dedicated home internet and just get unlimited, unmetered, mobile service and tether when at home or use a wireless puck -- like bandwidth heavy users of streaming video.
The last time we were in those areas, our AirBnBs also didn't have home internet/Wifi. The hosts just provided a puck that we were allowed to take with us wherever we went and just tether to it while in a backpack. Even though we have Google Fi, it saved a ton on mobile data and offered full 4g data speeds literally every place we went.
That way, I kept one of my couch surfing online for a month. It hardly cost me anything, but it was invaluable to him when he hitchhiked for a month.
In the nearest city, I think some friends recently got set up with 300 down for maybe 50-60 USD/mo.
For my family of 4, 30 down is okay most of the time. I don't have teenagers yet though, so ...
USA Verison - $39.99 200 Fiber
That sounds great, but considering the average salary is about €1500/m it’s actually really shit.
Even better on a service like fast.com
HK$138/m (US$17.80) for 1 gigabit (symmetric) fiber HK$160/m (US$20.64) for unlimited LTE deprioritized after 20gb
https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/uk-chinas-sec...
Most expensive ~100€/month ( Telenet: internet + TV )
No alternatives - unless you call $70/month DSL a competitor.
No Fios available :(