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Comment by s5300 | Hacker News Reader

>>Besides that, the fact that quite often, a person killing themselves will inflict a lot of suffering on their surroundings. If you argue we don't get to force someone to suffer, why does a suicidal person get to force others to suffer?

This is such an irrational line of thought. Absolutely irrational.

The suicidal person is in no way accountable for others feelings. Zero questions to be had about that. It's akin to as if a debt collector could come after you for your deceased parents debts. In the U.S. at least, that's illegal, because it's obviously bullshit.

I wish I could experience your own ideas of what empathy is, because from what you're saying, mine seem to greatly differ.

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The section you quote is not really relevant to my broader point.

As for:

> The suicidal person is in no way accountable for others feelings.

I disagree very much, and the few things I have seen from people who are suicidal suggests they would disagree as well. Suicidal people really hate the effect they have on others. And just in general, people are accountable for how they make others feel.

As for the broader point. I do not think that "killing yourself will hurt others" plays a big role in cases where people should not kill themselves, but I do think it plays some role. And moreover, I think it is inconsistent to say we can't force people to suffer by staying alive if we can force other to suffer by ending our own life.

> It's akin to as if a debt collector could come after you for your deceased parents debts. In the U.S. at least, that's illegal, because it's obviously bullshit.

I don't see the analogy at all.

Your and people's inconsistent and sweeping generalizations about people who want to die seems pretty irrational and illogical to me.

Some people are hurt by women's right to abortion. Are you against abortion?

Some people are hurt by taxes or debt. Are you against society or debt?

>> Some people are hurt by women's right to abortion. Are you against abortion?

Actually, in some cases you can make the same argument against abortion as already made in this thread against euthanasia for depressed people:

since the pregnant woman is most affected by the unwanted pregnancy, and maybe feeling like her whole life is falling apart because of it, then maybe that woman in her mental state shouldn't be making decision about abortion on her own.

The sad thing is, some western countries try to penalize putting any "pressure" on her, even if the attempt to influence her decision is coming from the child's father, or woman's family members.

These are nowhere near sweeping generalizations. I am making small hypothetical examples against the case "anyone who wants to die should immediately be able to do so". My aim is to show there are at least a few cases where this is not the case.

As for your questions. I actually think that sometimes doing things that hurt people is to be accepted. For example, sometimes (SOMETIMES, NOT ALWAYS, POSSIBLY EVEN RARELY) it is better to not allow someone to end their life. Similarly, sometimes it is better for someone to end their life even if that would hurt others.

>The suicidal person is in no way accountable for others feelings. Zero questions to be had about that.

Actually there are. Zero questions to be had about that.

People have connections, have relationships, have responsibilities (e.g. little kids), have spouses and loved ones, and so on. We're not carefree individual snowflakes only concerned with and accountable to ourselves.

>It's akin to as if a debt collector could come after you for your deceased parents debts.

In the case of suicide, you are the "deceased" and the debts are yours. So a better example would be suicide forcing your debts on others (the lender in this case).

That said, strong feelings about suicide and how unsurmountable some pain is point to some deep depression rather than clear thinking. I used to have some thoughts like that back at some point. Maybe talk to someone about it? Doesn't have to be a specialist, but friends etc would help.

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