I am not enjoying having a computer constantly between me and the road. I also don't like the new lower bound for car weight due to all of the modern safety regulations. Even if you have a modern car with a ton of power, you can never truly compensate for the physics equation imposed by all of that weight.
For example: A 1988 Honda Civic weighs somewhere in the realm of 2000-2200 lbs. A 2020 model year weighs somewhere between 2700-3000 lbs. This makes a huge difference in how a car feels to drive, especially at extremes that are more likely to be explored by enthusiasts.
Something like a BMW M3 E30 would be a dream hobby car for me. There is a reason the 80s-90s model years are starting to go up in value. Car enthusiasts want that sweet spot of purely analog controls, but also with working factory A/C.
Also, LiPo batteries can explode if you're not very careful with charge and discharge discipline. Even the small ones in cell phones can do significant damage that way.
Right now though we have some disappointing (from a power perspective) electric drivetrains from Prius' that can be swapped or a powerful but DRM'd Tesla drivetrain that is more work than it's worth.
People love to say this is due to regulation, but it really isn't. Safety regulations in the USA for automobiles are not terribly strict. It adds weight, for sure, but you can buy a 2100lb Mitsubishi Mirage with a stick shift. So mandatory safety aren't the biggest contributor to inflated curb weights.
Size inflation is predominantly driven by NVH and interior volume requirements from consumers. Dodge doesn't have to make the Challenger Hellcat a 4500lb two-door car. This car isn't fat for safety reasons, in fact, it score pretty damn low on safety tests.
Manufacture make heavy cars it because customers want gigantic, comfortable cruisers, with big engines, all-wheel job, 20" wheels on 265mm-wide tires, heavy duty lifted suspension, and full-length under-body trays.
Honda isn't immune to this, they don't even sell a car today that's as small in volume as your 88 Civic. The closest would be the discontinued CR-Z, which was a hyrbrid, or the no-long-sold-in-the-US Jazz/Fit, which is still quite a bit larger but only 2600lbs with a stickshift.
I love old Hondas, and you're right, they have a driving sensation that's impossible to get with modern cars. But don't blame regulations for Honda changing their ways, blame consumers. If people wanted a Civic with a 90hp engine, stick shift, four-wheel double-wishbone suspension, and 13" wheels, they'd sell one. Mitsu still does (for now).
People have said this exact thing for decades. It's because people old enough to remember being carted around in those cars as kids are finally getting old enough to be settled down and wealthy enough to have project cars. It has nothing to do with the vehicles themselves.
Within any given decade the things the rich kids got carted around in (or their dad commuted in) always command a premium.
A 1988 Honda Civic isn't purely mechanical. It still has an ECU, for example. It still relies on electrical sensors for basic operation.
> Car enthusiasts want that sweet spot of purely analog controls, but also with working factory A/C.
There's no shortage of new cars that still offer that, too, or recently used. You don't have to go back to the late-80s to get that. It seems to be mechanical steering combined with low curb weight that you're actually focusing on, which is still a market segment receiving new models. You've basically described every Porsche up until the 2012 model year, for example (when they first introduced electronic steering). Or the entire Lotus brand. Or specialty cars like the Alfa Romeo 4c, Toyota/Subaru FRS/GT86/BRZ, etc...
And, of course, you can't forget the king of sports cars - the Mazda Miata. 30 years later & it's still just as light as it's always been. And just as good.
> Something like a BMW M3 E30 would be a dream hobby car for me.
There's so much more to a car than spec sheets, and you should absolutely chase your dreams, but realize you can also basically buy a brand new M3 E30 today. The power, weight, size, etc... of the E30 is withing spitting distance of the GT86.
Both are front-engine rear-wheel drive. Both have manual transmissions (although a 6-speed in the GT86 vs. the 5-speed in the E30). Both have a ~2700lb curb weight. Both have a 101 in wheelbase. The 86 is a bit shorter length, bit shorter height, and a bit larger width, but all within a few inches. Both have a 4-cylinder engine at around 200hp, and both rev to about 7000 rpm. Both have responsive, playful suspensions, and direct steering feedback.
Regulations definitely didn't kill anything here as the same core specs still exist.
They're just different - electric is better in a lot of ways and gasoline is better in a lot of ways. I don't think you'll see electric cars doing endurance racing anytime soon.
Their chief limitation is managing heat, and maintaining the DC motors themselves.
Torque is k*HP/rpm, whether electric or ICE. If you can slip the wheels you can go faster. It's well known in the supercar world that you can often do a great estimate of top speed based on HP alone, given how aero dominates at speeds above 100mph and these cars aren't wildly more drag-efficient than one-another.
Top speed ^3 * cross sectional area * drag coefficient = HP.
Which is why supercars are so low to the ground, having 1/2 the cross section effectively doubles your horsepower. Though that’s assuming the car can handle the forces involved.
That weight is terrible for all sorts of other reasons, but that massive ~4,900lb curb weight combined with all-wheel drive is a major factor in the Model S's 2.3 second 0-60 times.
The axle strength on this thing must be crazy.
7 electric motors must be able to crank out torque.
(people don't generally realize the model 3 performance is almost 500 hp)
EVs are comparatively easy to get started on as a hobby. The production EVs are only making it easier by populating the secondhand parts market, and electric drivetrains are much simpler and easier to fit than ICE conversions.
Anyway, just like with Tesla, I expect that if you mess with the factory software to extract more features or performance you'd normally have to pay for, the manufacturer will void your warranty or lock you out of their charging networks.
The EV future doesn't look good for custom tuning.
Personally if I could retrofit my 240z with an electric drivetrain I would, I just wanna smoke some Tesla’s off the line :)
But then I perfectly know you are right about the general tendency of integrated and locked-in parts in engineering nowadays.
The Fast and furious style tuning is super easy on ICE cars but I expect it will be almost impossible in the EV future.
Given the utter simplicity of electric motors, I imagine that aftermarket creations will be much more common.
As a former EV automotive engineer, the complexity added to the newer designs to maximize efficiency has skyrocketed and so have the points of failure.
One EV project I worked at had the brushes fail after 20k KM needing the motor disassemble and brushes replaced. At another one we had attempted cooling the rotor and from too much vibrations, the coolant could leak inside the sealed motor totalling it.
People expecting EVs to outlast ICEs on reliability are in for a serious wake-up call.
I totally agree on the reliability point. ICE drivetrains have really been refined and typically last quite a long time. Last I checked, it's not usually the drivetrain that takes a car out of service anyway, so I don't expect EVs to really change the overall life expectancy.
My Tesla has been great, so far, but there are a lot of oddities that I don't think will age well. I probably won't keep it past the warranty period.
I think one of the reasons older Jeeps (with manual transmissions) are still really popular for off roading is that they are super mechanical and very easy to work on in the field. You can carry with you parts that are likely to break based on what you're doing and fix them yourself with a bit of know-how.
You can also tune them however you like as changing suspensions, axels, carbs, differentials, or even clutches is pretty straight forward if you have the tools. Hell, you don't even need to rely on the battery to start it as you can just push it to get it going. Super reliable in a sort of way if you're in the field and need to self repair.
Lots of dedicated automotive hobbyists end up being specialized mechanical engineers. They might not know the formal math behind systems, but they have a reason to learn. Today's hobbyists might look up tables for calculating fueling requirements for the expected airflow of their setups, as tuning an engine invariably means figuring out airflow volume for an intake setup, then calculating injector duty cycles to deliver a set volume of fuel over a specific timespan.
I doubt there will be many people modifying new EVs due to their complexity. But people are definitely converting old cars to EVs and that requires a pretty deep knowledge of EE principals.
I remember them being quite the experience though. The eye burning fumes in the air. The sound so violent that you feel like the thing could turn the entire track into a crater. When the things took off you could feel your organs shaking.
Not sure you can replicate that experience with an electric car. More likely tastes change and maybe drag racing dies out. Those races were the pinnacle of the ICE experience for me though.
It's been a long time since power was the problem in racing. It's all about keeping the wheels on the ground now. If you're burning rubber, you're not getting max acceleration.