Screwed by Lufthansa and the German Government, Saved by PayPal | Hacker News Reader

Screwed by Lufthansa and the German Government, Saved by PayPal

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43 pointsZeljkoS20 comments

I am getting screwed by KLM. I am guessing the Dutch government is giving similar option to KLM. my travel insurance is also screwing me saying that I should accept the voucher. It’s unfair the governments are bailing out airlines but they are just holding on to our money for the cancelled flights.

I have had cancelled overall 5 flights during this time for which I got zero response from any airline, there was no option to speak to a human as “all representatives were always busy”. All I could get is a voucher.

I’ve managed to get all refunded 3 x chargeback via credit cards and 2 x paypal. Provided basic proof of purchase. (UK)

So you got both voucher and the refund? Or were you able to cash the voucher?

Everyone that cancelled a flight with KLM that I know of got their money back. But seriously, cut them some slack. They are hit one of the hardest in this pandemic. The Dutch government bailing out the airline isn't a bad thing for you, it means that you won't lose the money.

Just so you know, I still haven't gotten my money from AirAsia for my flight to Seoul and although I'm irritated, I get it and I think it is fair for them to pay it out in waves. (My friend got his money back already)

Similar issue with Aeroflot. They cancelled my flight and issued a refund but said it would take weeks. After 4 weeks called my credit card company and they issued a credit to my account immediately. The credit card company said that I could have called after a week, didn’t have to wait 4.

Is it because your credit card offered a travel insurance? Or just a dispute?

In this case a dispute.

Just wondering is the money coming from airline or the credit card?

From the credit card. They will then deal with the company. So then it becomes their (the credit card company’s) problem.

It seems KLM has covered their bases — but can they?? This is what I read on the Paypal page when starting the dispute process:

Message from Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V.

Dear Passenger, Please visit our website http://www.klm.com to get the latest flight information about Coronavirus. Hereby the situation is minutely monitored so you can get the latest information. We highly recommend making use of the self-service options on our website to change your flight or request a travel voucher. Claims connected to Coronavirus about” KLM service not rendered” can`t be handled on PayPal site, only on KLM site. Thank you for your cooperation.

I pre-paid for a hotel with my debit card. The hotel cancelled the booking because of the lockdown in the UK. They refused to provide a refund, instead offering me to reschedule the booking some other time. As I was unlikely to visit that city any time soon I tried to get a chargeback through my debit card but I discovered that Government lockdowns are not covered by the Visa chargeback process.

Are you sure this was due to the chargeback process or because you used a debit card? Even vendors that have a NO REFUNDS policy can still lose credit card chargebacks because the bank will side with the customer the vast majority of the time.

What reason do you give the bank or credit card company for the chargeback?

For a canceled hotel reservation, probably Service Not Provided.

> Lufthansa was on the verge of bankruptcy and agreed to a €9 billion bailout from the German government. In an effort to save the company, the German government told Lufthansa that they don’t need to obey EU consumer protection law, and that they don’t need to issue refunds.

It's so sad to see capitalism getting killed by bureaucrats out of self interest.

Well, Level Europe just gone bankrupt a month ago, and while I can register my claim (in another country only, and only in German, lol), non-refundable registration fee is > than the cost of the ticket, and that would be just a beginning.

Never mind I was never told I was buying from level europe, all the communications prior to bankrupcy mentioned just level or vueling. (bot are different companies)

Really, the whole thing is set up so that only rich get any chance for getting any money back out of bankrupt companies, at the expense of small customers of course.

And of course as soon as they go bankrupt they delete everyhting online, so you have absolutely nothing to reference other than your payment records and whatever meager info they put in their notification e-mails. (all the terms and conditions, and everything else is gone, no access to booking info, etc.)

This person can be glad he can have a voucher.

Not sure what you mean.

Without government help there wouldn't be any airlines left. Would you prefer that?

> Without government help there wouldn't be any airlines left.

Could you elaborate on that please?

Edit: It's just another round of socializing risk while privatizing profit. Too big to fail is a hoax. When a firm is declared bankrupt only 1% the of value is lost to bankruptcy costs.

The other 99% is recovered by creditors through asset sales, restructuring, layoffs of people that use their knowledge in other companies.

The ratio of direct bankruptcy costs to the market value of the firm appears to fall as the value of the firm increases.

As measured here, the cost of bankruptcy is on average about one percent of the market value of the firm prior to bankruptcy.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/2326766?seq=1

Sure, why not? The airplanes, airports, pilots, flight attendants, and ground crews will still exist.

I don't think this comment is entirely right, but do I stand behind the government bailouts, both for KLM, Lufthansa and Airfrance and other airlines. Why? It's simple, people can complain about Lufhansa being bailed out but not getting their money back. If the German government didn't bailout Lufthansa there would be no money to give back nor would there be any option to get a voucher because there would be no company left.

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