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Comment by esperent | Hacker News Reader

There's nothing wrong with the taste of Nespresso (it's a little weak for me, but that's personal preference). The reason why coffee pods are awful and need to die is the sheer, disgusting amount of pointless waste they create. Every single cup of coffee requires a small, non-degradable, hard to recycle piece of plastic. Making coffee with a normal espresso machine is so easy. You can learn how to do it in 5 minutes (not barista quality, but at least as good as Nespresso). If you think that cleaning up the mess from a coffee machine is too much work, you are just lazy.

The only benefit I can think of is that you don't need a sink nearby. But in every case where I have seen a Nespresso machine, there is a sink within at most a two minutes walk.

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> The reason why coffee pods are awful and need to die is the sheer, disgusting amount of pointless waste they create.

It’s funny how people are so high and mighty about the small stuff and then let the absolutely enormous stuff pass completely. Are you this judgmental about living in a stand alone house vs an apartment in an apartment building? Taking plane trips for vacation?

Or do those bog standard—celebrated even—parts of upper middle class life get a free pass while you sneer down your nose at people that don’t pull their own espresso shots to save a few hundred ounces of plastic a year “for the environment”?

Because one is easy to eliminate, and other things are not (or occurs rarely).

Making 2 coffees twice a day is something that adds up. Same as with bottled water, you can just buy filter flask/bottle/ etc. and use tap water. Or recycling vs not bothering.

This whole argument of: 'Well you drive, or fly, or use coal power etc, so dont bother with little things' it is just cuddling of mind. Conditioning not to care as you can do nothing to change the outcome of anything. So CONSUME!

Yes those are small things but its the mindset that will make you more conscious and less egocentric in a long run.

Getting an apartment instead of a house IS easy in most places, it's just a bigger sacrifice which I think is the point. Privileged people unwilling to make sacrifices sneer at others who might actually might be doing a better job overall.

> Privileged people unwilling to make sacrifices sneer at others who might actually might be doing a better job overall.

Yes, I agree though its a bit of a straw-man.

The world would be a better place if we look inwards for things to improve, instead of outwards for confirmations how everyone else sucks.

Also:

>Getting an apartment instead of a house IS easy in most places If you have 2 kids and you work from home, then a 2 bedroom apt will hardly be 'easy', both logistically and mentally.

> then a 2 bedroom apt will hardly be 'easy'

The point of the apartment isn't to downsize in terms of number of bedrooms, it's more that heating and cooling something freestanding takes a lot more energy.

I don't think you got the point. The point is not to build a straw-man as an argument as I can do it too and it gets us nowhere.

>it's more that heating and cooling something freestanding takes a lot more

What about temperate climate without huge swings in temperature, plus its new house with A+ insulation and solar. So you are more green as you save on electricity.

I don't mean to say anything about your specific situation. OP was pointing out that people tend to hyperfocus on insignificant optimizations, and mentioned living situation as a big optimization that almost nobody thinks about.

Furthermore, the typical Nespresso drinker is very likely someone who has the money to fly. So it’s about ways how someone with a lot of money could still try to make an effort to reduce waste and environmental impact.

Because with literally every other coffee making method, the waste products are 100% biodegradable/compostable (coffee grounds and filters). They also cost significantly less - you can make a fantastic cup of coffee in <5 minutes for 50¢ with $50 in equipment that will last for at least a decade. Nespresso is rent-seeking and trying to upsell convenience and laziness at the expense of the earth. That behavior needs to be put down.

Most coffee beans come in non-degrading packages. It’s less waste than Nespresso, but it’s not 100% either.

I don’t think rent-seeking applies to Nespresso. Yes they make money from laziness, but it’s not rent-seeking in a parasitic way. You can stop buying Nespresso any day.

I agree with your overall point though. I have a Gaggia Classic. Running with relatively low maintenance for 6 years now. But when I’m on vacation, I actually appreciate a Nespresso machine in an Airbnb.

I see both sides here. On the one hand, let's do what we can to reduce waste, even if it seems small. On the other hand, let's not overly focus on small things while ignoring the big ticket items: heating, A/C, transportation, diet, food waste, and a number of other things are more environmentally damaging than small pieces of plastic.

Plastic isn't ideal, especially when it gets out of our waste system and loose in the environment. However, plastic is cheap to make, convenient, clean, customizable; it's here to stay for many applications, so we'll have to do our part to use plastic wisely.

Those shitty little cups cost more than regular cheap-o coffee, generate more waste, many involve running incredibly hot water through cheap plastic (I’m sure that’s great for our health), and have a weaker flavor. There’s zero benefit to it.

Frankly, the cups deserve more hate. Companies sold people a clearly inferior product and people keep buying them despite them being objectively worse than any other common coffee brewing method.

Sure, there are plenty of bad things out there, like abandoned fishing nets trashing up the ocean and coal polluting our air. But you can’t get your mom to do anything about that. You can get her to buy a $5 coffee can and make something better than a disposable coffee pod.

They’re aluminium.

Or course it’s on your mom—because those old people have no environmental awareness and need to be constantly educated by their ethically superior children.

Why aren’t you going after the people posting Machu Picchu and Angkor Wat selfies to insta? Not as much fun to be a scold when there are real social consequences?

If there’s one thing I hate about contemporary culture it the puritanical self righteousness.

People do complain about that. But people usually concerns themselves with the actions of people closest to them. Meeting someone and calling them an asshole about a vacation they took once 3 years ago is a different level than telling a good friend or family that they’re wasting gas or buying shitty, harmful coffee.

The one thing I hate more than anything is whataboutism that aims to stall any sort of progress. The “we can’t criticize anything because we still have another problem and only self-righteous people want to better things and appropriately handle things on a per-case basis” crowd is really just pure tedium to deal with.

Try worrying about the plank in your own eye some time. The results might surprise you.

...or my favorite incongruity--being very concerned about little things, but being 30, 40, or 50 pounds overweight!

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/global-shift-obes...

People have been living in standalone houses longer than I've been alive. People have been flying for vacation longer than I've been alive. Maybe we should work on those things, but they are not new, and (right or wrong) could even be argued to have been a measure of living standards for quite a long time.

What hasn't been around longer than I've been alive is a new way to make coffee have far more environmental impact than it used to. We're supposed to be making things better, not worse. So, yeah, I can be high and mighty about your new way to needlessly generate trash while still living in a standalone house, and not a bit of cognitive dissonance in sight.

Those things aren't new, but the scale of it is new. In particular, passenger air travel has absolutely exploded the last couple of decades. According to this [1] chart, the number of passengers have doubled in 2006. It's up by a factor 13 since 1970.

Our systemic environmental problems don't mostly come from new concepts, but from population growth and globalization.

[1] https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/IS.AIR.PSGR

Humans are cognitively extremely bad at comprehending (visualising) the big effects that can accrue from small things (hence the magic of compound interest). We expect big effects to come from big things.

> Making coffee with a normal espresso machine is so easy. You can learn how to do it in 5 minutes (not barista quality, but at least as good as Nespresso)

This is not correct, also keeping in mind that it doesn't exist a "normal" espresso machine - the setup is espresso machine and grinder.

I'm into espresso, and it takes a lot of effort to make consistent shots.

Independently of the quality (to remove the "snob" factor), Nespresso machines are quite consistent. So if one likes the result, they can stick with that and know what they'll get.

Beginners and/or low-end equipment, produce very inconsistent shots. There's nothing inherently wrong, but that adds a crucial dimension in the comparison.

One may prefer potentially worse but consistent espresso (=Nespresso), than potentially better but wildly inconsistent ones (=beginner+low-end semiautomatic/grinder).

You don't need a grinder, you can buy grounded coffee at the right size for espresso in supermarkets.

I call bullshit on "a lot of effort to make consistent shots". Unless you are a coffee snob, just putting the same amount of coffee everytime and using a tamper will produce an espresso that is the same than the next one.

The type of coffee you use and how much water you put is what makes an espresso cup different from the next one (again, as a regular Joe who doesn't have any specific training in coffee and is not a snob).

There is no one "right size for espresso". Even with a pressurized filter basket, you can only do so much to achieve proper extraction (i.e. getting the right amount of water through the puck in the right amount of time) without controlling the grind size.

What makes an espresso cup different from the next one is not only the beans and how much water you put through it, but also what is extracted from the beans. Even a regular Joe can tell the difference between a under-extracted sour shot and something closer to proper extraction.

Regular Joe is a lot more pragmatic than paying over $3 for a cup or $1.50 for a bit of a shot. Americano is actually a good deal, tastes better than filter, costs less, more volume than espresso shot. Diluting excess of bitterness or sourness for perceived balance, can be tuned with sugar. The saved coins can buy a cookie to go with it, so can sit in the coffee house longer, maybe meet someone new. Good job, Joe!

I depends. If you have an espresso machine with a pressurized basket it would kind of work even with too coarsly ground coffee. But coffee snobs will tell you that then you don't get proper extraction (i.e. weak taste) and that it would be more consistent but also consistently not optimal.

If you don't have a pressurized basket you really need to dial in the grind setting for each coffee, have a good grinder that doesn't make the machine choke and have a good machine that doesn't "channel", i.e. a lot of effort to make consistent shots.

Absolutely. Pressurised baskets are great when all you want is acceptable coffee with minimal effort. A lot of popular home "espresso" machines come with one for this reason. Many or most Breville (Sage) machines come with one, even the "pro" machines.

I seriously recommend anyone thinking about a pod machine consider a cheap manual machine instead. I then recommend buying fresh ground beans from a local cafe. Not only are you reducing landfill but also supporting local business.

I guess my thing is that I can never find/settle on a good manual machine plus grinder that I would describe as "cheap". I worked as a barista for a few years back in the day and while not a terribly "snobby" coffee drinker, I do miss being able to pull a decent shot and also make microfoam for latte/flat white type drinks.

The problem is that at a minimum I'd be looking at $1000-1500 for a decent grinder and machine and (at least currently) that's up in the realm of luxury items I might buy someday but can't justify right now. Even the passable all-in-one consumer machines like some of the Brevilles are up in the $800+ range and I hesitate to buy anything that expensive that is not repairable.

So instead I just buy beans roasted within the past couple of weeks, grind when needed with a cheap blade grinder, and make drip coffee with a basic machine. Once in a while I do a moka pot and whip up hot milk in a french press for a fake latte but that's usually not worth the effort. When I want an espresso or a latte I go to the cafe and buy one maybe once or twice a month.

I have never considered buying any sort of pod machine. Way too wasteful and expensive for what you get out of it.

I got a cheap manual burr grinder (JavaPresse) to replace my cheap blade grinder, and it has made an enormous difference in the quality of my daily coffee. Granted, I use a French press, so grind size matters more than with drip. But it was a simple change that improved my daily enjoyment.

There are a few parameters to consider:

Beans (roast and freshness)

Grinding (depends on freshness of the beans as well)

Amount of coffee ground (get exactly 14g)

Pressure applied with the tamper (consistent pressure every time)

Extraction time (possibly different grind to get right volume)

Getting all these roughly the same isn’t trivial.

There's a single parameter to consider - yourself, that is one's own tolerances and expectations.

Coffee drinking lately regained its kinds of ritual, which come with proper inventory and attributes. Mini ceremonies we create for ourselves in the name of caffeine jolt.

I once attended an Ethiopian coffee ceremony [1], a bit theatrical, but it has social function, and indeed showcases coffee as it passess from green beans to your cup. By the way, the grounds can be rebrewed twice at least (like good tea).

My first feeling was that the ceremony celebrates the coffee, but then I realized that it's really a way for a host to celebrate the guests, basically the result is not in the cup but in the preparations.

All of us coffee drinkers maintain some kind of the ceremony, for many (pre COVID19) it was standing in the morning line at whatever coffee-'temple', accepting whatever ended up in the cup with your(?) name.

It's when this cult aspect is detached, suddenly all attention is tied to the devices, consistency, origin, etc.

[1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee_ceremony

"grounds can be rebrewed twice at least (like good tea)"

Confession: I was once a missionary. We had a saying about used tea bags: good enough for a missionary.

> You don't need a grinder, you can buy grounded coffee at the right size for espresso in supermarkets.

That's so not true and "snobbery" has nothing to do with it.

The grind size is one of the ways you have for controlling extraction pressure.

You can only tamp so hard on the coffee. If the grind is too large there's no way for you to get the pressure up to 9 bars that's usually given as the espresso range.

Your coffee will taste sour, like a low pressure moka pot would make. Such a low pressure won't be able to extract the oils that make the creme, so it will also look "flat".

Equally if your store pre-ground coffee is ground too small you won't be able to lower the pressure and you'll end up with a bitter tasting, over extracted shot because you're pulling stuff out of the beans you don't want.

Different beans will have different amounts of oil in them, even for the same brand. That oil affects water pressure too.

So there isn't one "perfect" grind size. Every bag of beans is different and needs to be adjusted to keep in the pressure range.

It's not a particularly complex process. Grind size is just a pressure control and pressure affects taste. The grinder has a setting for grind size and a setting for the amount it produces. You just dial them up or down until you get the result you want.

That's before you even consider how freshness affects taste...

This is exactly why I prefer the Nespresso, there are so many variables to control with pulling my own espresso shots and I really don't want to be bothered with any of it.

I just want a consistent, fresh, and marginally professional espresso without having to become an expert at all the above. It also goes without saying that getting all these variables dialed in, for the most part, doesn't even happen at local coffee shops. There are a few in my area, but they're all at least a 10-15 min bike ride away.

Don't listen to him. You can probably get a reusable pod that works if you want. I have perfectly fine shots, don't let someone make a mountain out of a molehill and did discourage you from ever trying.

Sounds just like over thinking. I just tamp preground espresso and have the espresso shot.

Aye, same, overthinking it a bit. At least, overthinking it for something made at home.

I used to run a coffee shop for a little over a year, and the factors that the parent mentioned are true, but it's mostly a function of using freshly ground beans and making sure they're ground to the right consistency. We had an auto-grinder, but if we had to do it by hand it was about 20 seconds of holding down the button for a darker roast, a little longer (~25?) for the lighter roast.

The home user won't notice the difference too much, and the commercial customer won't notice it at all if you start frothing some milk, adding a little cocoa powder to the top, and putting in a ton of sugar -- which was the bulk of the drinks we sold (sugary lattes and stuff).

There's a very good sibling answer. Something that I'd like to add to it is that temperature is another crucial factor.

Low-end machines have very fluctuating temperatures. Therefore, when one buys a machine in this range, they have to perform tricks, or accept inconsistency.

With my machine for example, I have to run two empty cups before reaching the acceptable temperature, for _every espresso_ (as it drops quickly); I'm fine with it. Machines like the Gaggia Classic require the so-called "surfing", which I've never tried.

I suspect that Nespressos have a very small group, which makes temperature more predictable and quick, for the intended use, which I guess is less frequent shots. This is speculation on my part.

Again, one can be perfectly happy with low-end machinery. There's nothing wrong; just let's be clear that consistency is not what you get with it.

Every time I buy a new bag of ground coffee, I like it better than the one I just used up. That's almost certainly not because the new one is better than the old one, it's because the coffee in the old bag has gotten stale (as the article mentions). So unless I buy really small quantities of ground coffee, I'm stuck with coffee that gets stale.

That's why I bought a grinder, since the whole beans don't go stale so fast.

Nespresso do have a recycling program[0]. The recycling bags are free and can be dropped off, again for free. I suppose this might differ from country to country, but in the UK what they propose sounds pretty good?

My housemate had a "proper" coffee machine and it was ok for one cup, but it temperamental. If I packed it too tight it wouldn't work. I couldn't reliably get the same result.

It is also very hands on. Nespresso machines let me make 2 within a few minutes while I prepare breakfast. Start warming up machine, milk in frother, cup under nozzle, press start.

[0] https://www.nespresso.com/uk/en/recycling-initiatives?name=n...

> Nespresso do have a recycling program

That they have a recycling program isn't that interesting. Nespresso creates a waste/problem, they should be ensuring the waste is minimized. Meaning, not just a recycling program (I doubt it's used much), but also do something if it appears customers are ignoring the recycling program. It feels too much like an easy excuse otherwise.

In Netherlands the industry used to also point towards largely ignored recycling programs. For some cases (plastic bottles) the government actually did something with that, then ensured it was used. Basically the measure taken by many countries, small fee which you get back as you hand it in. Handing in is the same place that you get the bottle from. This continues to work with Internet (delivery only) supermarkets; next time they arrive you can hand in the bottles + plastic delivery bags.

That's a good point. In the UK we're very poor at recycling schemes and there's little motivation other than an individual wanting to help the environment.

Maybe recycling bags could be easily weighed (as pods should have a similar weight?) and the persons account could be credited. Balancing the price/reward would be difficult, especially now as thirdparties could easily undercut with no care for the environment.

I suppose I'm glad they have a recycling program and it helps me feel like I'm not negatively contributing, but I agree its a shame that the scheme isn't more popular considering how easy it is.

There is a reason why "recycle" is last in "reduce, reuse, recycle".

Going to be honest here - I’m a nespresso owner and I’ve never used the recycling program.

If you're ordering coffee from the Nespresso website, just add the Recycling Collection option - it's free.

What happens is simply that, on the day you receive your order, somebody will also come and collect your bag - no need to mess with labels. If you need a bag just order it on the web - it's free with any coffee and you can get multiple ones in one go.

Otherwise, when you go buy the coffee, just bring the bag with you. Actual Nespresso shops will all accept it, popup stands might not. The last option (imho the less convenient) is to print a label then bring the bag to one of those delivery-pickup places like cornershops and petrol stations.

We recycle a bit differently, possibly because we're in the US: Nespresso sends us pre-paid UPS bags. We fill the bags with used pods, and take them by the UPS store every once in a while.

The article says only 5% of pods are recycled.

To be honest, do you really think most Nespresso owners are going to do some extra recycling they have to handle themselves instead of just throwing the pods into the city collected trash? It’s a nice idea but i have hard time seeing it to work in practice.

I'm in the US and I regularly use Nespresso's recycling program.

Whenever I order new coffee they ship a bag with a pre-paid label on it. I just keep it in the freezer until it's full. Then I drop it off at UPS once a month.

Why do you store plastic trash in the freezer?

I suspect the wet coffee grounds are still in the pod. (also fyi, the pods are aluminum).

Well I don't own a Nespresso for that reason, so I agree. I drink too much coffee at home. I have several options, because I enjoy different kinds of coffee at different times.

However, I see a lot of Nespresso machines in hotels and it somewhat makes sense, because what else could you put there? A decent Jura would be too expensive, a drip coffee maker not "good enough" (see my post). With an espresso machine, you'd also have to provide a grinder and a barista, because no one would want to spend time learning the setup up on a trip.

We like them because you can make one or two cups without wasting a lot of coffee or water.

And unlike other brands, Nespresso pods are made of aluminum, so they can be recycled. In the US, when you order the pods or pick them up in a Nespresso shop, you get a UPS mailer bag. When you use a pod, drop it in the bag. When the bag is full, seal the bag and drop it in a UPS mailbox to recycle the pods with Nespresso. That's something I can't do with the bags from the coffee beans I get in stores here.

This article makes a big deal out of the fact that people don't recycle their pods. I'm not sure why that's Nespresso's fault. At least in the US, it's pretty damn painless.

> We like them because you can make one or two cups without wasting a lot of coffee or water.

So just like a regular espresso machine. You put espresso powder for one or two cups in the portafilter, put some water in the tank, done. Tank doesn't need to be filled completely, but you can just keep the water in there for the next espresso. No waste created, and you can even reuse the powder as fertilizer.

> You put espresso powder for one or two cups in the portafilter

It took me way too long to realise you mean coffee.

> When you use a pod, drop it in the bag. When the bag is full, seal the bag and drop it in a UPS mailbox to recycle the pods with Nespresso.

Hmm, I'm curious about how many pods fill the bag; just wondering about the efficiency/waste of individuals mailing a small bag of aluminium potentially thousands of miles. I can't help but wonder if this system is little more than a platitude from Nespresso to make people feel like they aren't being wasteful.

(I don't mean this as an attack on your choice to use a Nespresso machine - I'm just musing about the recycling system you described)

I’ve never counted, but based on how many pods I’ve used and how many bags I’ve recycled, I’d have to guess around 100. Maybe more? I actually take my bag to the Nespresso store, so while it’s a fair point to raise about the overall efficiency of the recycling, I have to imagine the store is doing bulk shipments of pods off to the recycling plant which would help a bit.

I received my machine as a gift. I probably wouldn’t have kept it if it weren’t for their recycling program (it’s also not my main method for making coffee) - but you're right, it might just be platitudes.

It’s worth noting their recycling program also composts the used grounds.

Less than 30% get recycled. And the problem is all brands of coffee pods, not just nestle.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-16/most-nespresso-coffee...

> non-degradable, hard to recycle piece of plastic

Erm... all nespressos are aluminium.

Exactly. Most competitors have plastic, but when there's an article criticizing capsule coffee machines, it's always about Nespresso or with a picture of Nespresso pods.

You cannot really do espresso in 5 minutes practically at home. Heat up the machine, fill water, grind beans all takes time. And you need to do clean up after. It takes 10 minutes on avg

I know it's not the same but AeroPress or Moka Pot at home- fast, tasty, strong. Only it's difficult to serve guest because how little the container is.

If you dump enoigh money, the machine does most of it for you, you need to click a button" take a piss and come back.

> Every single cup of coffee requires a small, non-degradable, hard to recycle piece of plastic.

I'm not sure if you're just using "Nespresso" as shorthand for "pod-based coffee machine" but the unique thing about the Nespresso system is its use of aluminum (recyclable) pods.

Recycling rates may not be high enough, but that's a marketing/UX problem that can be addressed.

You are right, Nespresso and especially Krups pods are ridiculously wasteful. To put something compostable in a vessel which will take 100s of years to biodegrade feels perverse.

That said if people started to make coffee in espresso machines that would if anything be even more wasteful.

One, most espresso machines sol are the cheap machines. And they are rickety, poorly made, unrepairable and low longevity. You see lots of them at the local household waste center piled up next to other consumer electronics junk. I could see a proliferation of them being a bigger environmental nuisance than pods.

Two, a proper espresso machine takes a fair bit of time to warm up and I wouldn't drink the first shot out of the machine, so they need to be run through a few times, wasting electricity and coffee.

I can see the appeal of Nespresso. I don't personally want one, but their convenience and ingenuity is undeniable. If anything Nestle should double down on ensuring the pods are either compostable or that recycling rates improve markedly.

That, and Nespresso capsules are way overpriced. I owned a Nespresso machine years ago (got it as a present) but couldn't justify the waste. Also, you must order original Nespresso capsules either at the Nespresso shop (of which there's maybe one in every major city at best), or order it online. Maybe I'm in the minority here, but online shopping is no progress for me since it just means I have to wait at home for an unreliable delivery service when I have plenty of shops in walking distance. So when third-party capsules became available, I immediately bought those instead (while they're cheap, they're not nearly as good and varied as original Nespresso capsules, though, IMO). However, one of those third-party capsules melted/stuck in the holder and I had to peel it off using a knife. That of course ruined the machine which now would leak pressure at the place where I used the knife, so I rejoiced and got rid of the machine :)

Whilst the classic Nespresso machines have potential recycling issues, the vertuo line of machines/pods are more favourable.

I was recently given a second-hand Nespresso vertuo machine and I'm very happy with the re-use options.

There are stainless steel refillable pods as well as single-use film lids to apply to emptied pods.

I'm giving the film lids a go first as the stainless steel pods are quite pricey (around £20 each).

I'm able to re-use the pods that came with the machine, refilling with the large supply of ground coffee that I receive as gifts and would otherwise use in a cafetiere.

My stash of bagged pre-ground coffee produces excellent results in the vertuo machine with a good crema on top as good as most coffee shops that I've been to.

With some freshly-ground good quality coffee, a re-usable vertuo pod or two and a vertuo machine you can make barista-quality coffee with zero non-degradable waste.

I don't drink much coffee and a bag of ground coffee would go stale in a week. The pods have a shelf life of months if not years (and because I drink so little coffee the waste created is negligible).

Just keep the opened bag in the freeze and top up a small container you keep near your coffee machine.

Freezing doesn't keep the taste (in fact it'll pull in the weird "freezer flavors" as other stuff in your freezer offgasses) and the freeze/thaw cycle has a negative affect on the flavor profile.

Can keep it in a sealed container for the first issue (glass is great).

I don’t understand the 2nd issue: isn’t coffee already solid/frozen?

What do you need a sink for? The spent grounds can go in the trash

Or compost.

If you're using a coffee machine at home, you get a sink for free as you're probably putting it in your kitchen.

If you're using it in an office, it's going to get used 50x as much, and you want a sink nearby to refill the water, empty the drip tray, and house the cleaning supplies for spills - all of which will happen 50x as often.

And clean mugs will take a trip via the sink/dishwasher anyway....

Only time I've seen coffee machines away from the sink was in cheap shared office space, where different companies shared the same kitchen but didn't share coffee supplies. People shuffling along corridors with perilously full coffee machine drip trays was a regular sight :)

> And clean mugs will take a trip via the sink/dishwasher anyway....

I’m that monster that uses the same mug every day and just give it a quick rinse. Since I finish off the mug each day, it ends up dry (inhibiting growth), and I put nearly boiling weak acid in it daily.

I only clean it good when there’s a long weekend or I’m back from holiday.

There's absolutely no shame in that (as long as nobody else uses your mug).

> There's nothing wrong with the taste of Nespresso (it's a little weak for me, but that's personal preference).

I suspect it's the personal preference of a lot of people. Pods typically have 5g of coffee. A typical portafilter basket holds 12..21 grams. It's not a small difference.

I had a nespresso-compatible coffee machine that also accepted its own compostable pods. Moreover there are many machines (including nespresso machines for offices) which work with pads, i.e. pressed coffee wrapped in a paper filter.

Here (the US), Nespresso ships their pods with pre-paid plastic bags for recycling. We fill the bags with our used pods, and every once in awhile drop them off at UPS. Problem solved.

Here, in Norway, the Nespresso and similar pods are aluminium so you just drop them in the metal recycling bin along with other cans and glass. No plastic involved.

Especially since there is instant coffee, which isn't as bad as its reputation. Probably high energy use, but at least no plastic.

> which isn't as bad as its reputation

What's the best instant coffee out there? I've honestly never had a good one before, but I've only tried instant coffee in Japan.

There are horrible ones and honestly I always buy the more expensive stuff. Nescafé Gold is pretty good. Don't know if the product is called the same outside of Germany/EU (the company is Swiss I believe).

Sadly I have no better metric than expensive = good and it isn't really true for most products. There is cheap stuff that tastes really bad though. If you look closely, you can see a difference between more expensive and cheaper products, probably resulting from different production methods.

The jabocs and nescafe gold variants are what I prefer. The ones I buy are either larger granules or fine powder and light brown in color. These are better than the standard black instant coffee which is even more acidic, but it's still awful to drink without milk. I mainly make instant coffee when I can't be bothered with the french press. I have a feeling that these don't provide the same kick and that they hurt my teeth more because of the extra acidity.

I use Cafe Bustelo's instant espresso at the ratio 1tbsp per six oz. The flavor is quite toasty and bitter, but the mouthfeel is great IMHO and it's exceedingly cheap.

I'd love a proper espresso machine or even a moka pot but alas, small children.

The popular coffee YouTuber and 2007 world barista champion James Hoffmann did an instant coffee roundup a few months ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cIqLvJz8VM

Sadly I think some of the products featured aren't available outside the UK.

I've had some instant coffee that I enjoyed, but only once I decide to think of it as a different caffeinated drink than coffee. It's tasty, so long as you add lots of sugar, but it does not taste much like a real coffee to me, besides being black and bitter.

According to the article the pods are made out of aluminum and 100% recyclable with Nestlé offering to come pick them up at your home.

Nespresso Vertuo, which has aluminum pods, has recycle drop off points for them at certain stores (Williams Sonoma in the US).

Both types of nespresso use aluminum pods

Apparently less than 30% of nesspresso pods get recycled. And that says nothing about any other company's pods which probably have an even lower rate.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-16/most-nespresso-coffee...

This simply isn't good enough. Recycling doesn't work if it either isn't convenient enough or isn't part of the communal fabric - and I'd argue that the second isn't there in small-to-medium town America, not to mention that some municipalities have been caught not actually recycling their stuff supposedly destined for recycling.

I'd say at a minimum, such a product should always come with postage paid recycling envelopes.

Nespresso gives you postage-paid recycling bags which you fill and drop-off at a shipper.

> This simply isn't good enough. Recycling doesn't work if it either isn't convenient enough

I hate this attitude that one cannot be bothered to do a thing that is universally good, unless it's convenient, easy, and painless.

I am an espresso "snob", whatever that word means. I have had a lot of espresso in many places, from excellent to very bad. There's a wide range of good-enough which Nespresso consistently hit, and thus I have forsaken my quest to grind my own beans and be my own barista. Nespresso is better than many high-end coffee shops as well as fine dining establishments, surprising to me.

> it's a little weak for me, but that's personal preference

Have you tried the 12 and 13 out of 10 intensity capsules?

They're roasted darker and ground finer, but it's still nowhere close to a proper double shot pulled from 15-20g of coffee.

Also while the single-origins are good, the arabica and robusta blends are pretty awful in my opinion.

Save the grounds in a bag and use for your (home) plants, they love it.

In Switzerland they have a separate recycling receptacle for pod waste.

lavazza makes compostable nespresso pods fwiw.

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