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Comment by lifeisstillgood | Hacker News Reader

I just saw the most obvious and brilliant invention - it's a dispensing bottle of hand sanitizer on a stand - you press a pedal at the base and a gearing presses down and dispenses a dollop. it solves so many issues !

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There are automatic battery-operated (probably infrared?) dispensers posted in public places in my area. The whole thing is smaller than a tissue box, so the logistics are probably a lot simpler than they would be with dispensers the height of the distance between the ground and people's hands.

We had those at work long before covid, and they were always failing in some way, batteries, detector fouled etc

Just the simplicity seemed ideal

Yes, a mechanical foot-operated dispenser would be perfectly realistic with the technology of a century ago.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. A simple pedal on the floor seems perfectly acceptable. Doesn't need batteries to replace. Nothing wrong with that. Not everything needs to have "tech" applied to make it functional

Exactly, that's the point I was trying to make. (I'm not sure why I got downvoted though --- I see something like that being possible with 1920s technology as a good thing. I recall foot-operated refrigerator doors being marketed in 1930s ads.)

there are lots of people who don't have the physical ability to use a floor pedal (wheelchair, elderly/using a walker, etc) for whom a simple sensor dispenser works great. Checking the dispenser once/a few times a day wouldn't be a big hassle.

It's not even tech, it's just off the shelf junk that any shop can buy for an extra $5 over a manual dispenser.

Same. Mostly ours was empty or didn't trigger reliably, but one time I walked by and it was just a steady stream of sanitizer onto the floor.

Most of the time they were just empty. These days they're stocked with soap and batteries. You already need a person to come by and refill it so I really don't think the small electric one is at that much of a disadvantage.

They have had these for years in OR suites to dispense surgical scrub soap. They use an air bulb and tubing rather than mechanical link since that is much more durable and cheaper to replace. These obviously present an accessibility issue in public places that don't generally apply to ORs. I think the hand operated or IR is the good enough solution in most cases though.

Why not just have it hand operated? If you're going to sanitize your hands directly after pumping it, what's the big deal?

In N Out in California has ones like this. You just squeeze this rubbery piece and it causes the sanitizer gel to come out, then you just use it on the entirety of your hands after. No big deal.

I've never understood this about public bathrooms. I don't need my soap dispenser to be automatic since I only use it when I'm going to be washing my hands already.

It's weird to see automatic soap dispensers but manual "hand pump" paper towel dispensers.

Many things are over engineered just because.

Throw a battery in it, hell, just throw a chip in it.

In most cases (Most cases) analog Trumps digital.

The soap dispenser is automatic because in theory it reduces the amount of soap used. Except for the ones built into the sink which try to shoot soap at you while you’re rinsing, and it becomes a game to dodge it.

I’ve had more than one experience where you go to use a hand operated and it’s empty. Then you wonder who touched that thing before you and what did you pick up.

I despise the hand operated ones now. Same with mechanical faucets in a public bathroom. I don’t want to turn it off once my hands are clean...

That’s what you use the paper towel for... oh wait, those are gone too.

The use of these has exploded in South Africa during the current pandemic.

It’s quite common here. Also interesting to watch the market dynamics at play as the price has steadily come down and everyone is copying it.

I'd love to see more automatic doors, especially on restrooms, but I understand that automatic doors are pretty expensive for some reason?

No need to have 'em automatic; just ensure they open outwards, so you can push 'em open with your foot.

Fire code requires that doors swing open in the direction of egress under certain conditions:

https://www.nfpa.org/Assets/files/AboutTheCodes/101/101_FAQs... (PDF link)

Can this be worked around with two sets of doors (opening in separate directions) or doors that can swing either way?

Unless, according to code, there isn't enough room in the outer area, or opening outwards would create a hazard. This is often why many public bathroom door open inwards, and yet passed code inspections.

The very first sentence of the paragraph in your link's section on this subject mentions these exceptions.

My post includes the clause "under certain conditions". I was trying to inform the OP of fire code regulations that might impede this design. I'm not sure why this was responded to so negatively.

I think that’s fine. The path of egress should always be outside the bathroom, no?

Once when I was at a bathroom I saw a door that had a metal band affixed to it, so you could put your foot between the door and the band to open it.

That being said, that would be only sanitary if you were wearing a shoe with a closed toe.

I’ve also seen restroom doors with vertical pull bars that have a gap at the top, so you can sling them open with your wrist without putting your hand on it.

I'd love to find something cheap, like maybe some kind of lever device you could step on, that would open the doors mechanically without the need of using hands.

I have been trying on and off to come up with just such a device for decades. Leverage and profile are the big problems - and a door that opens inwards is a bugger.

Doors that open both ways are easy - just push to open

Maybe with some pneumatics? I dunno, hmm.

https://www.stepnpull.com

Not affiliated with the company, but definitely a fan of the product.

Shoes or not most diseases cannot infect through skin. They need mucous membrane. Washing hands after touching the feet is enough to keep the worst stuff out.

This is why it's a bad idea to pick your nose with your toes.

Well in general it's a good idea to wash your hands and feet before letting them touch your face.

Well, diseases can also infect through breaks in skin, and your feet are probably one of the roughest treated parts of your body.

It's not a major vector. We don't always wear gloves either.

The difference between feet and hands is that hands frequently touch mucous membranes, where feet don't. So if you can move a contaminating activity from the hands to the feet this easily reduces infections by an order of magnitude for that vector.

I wonder if there are other, cheaper ways to give people a manual option to open the door without touching it. Maybe some mechanical device you could step on to open a door?

I just always grab a paper towel and use it to grab the handle with. Seems like an easy enough solution to me.

Doesn't always work well if the bin is too far away from the door.

Luckily, the bathroom is not the only location in the entire building with a trashcan

On cruise ships they have been working this out for a bit. There's a bin by the door. You grab the handle with your towel, put the towel in the bin while holding the door with your toe, and then exit. Ship's health propaganda points out that this will be the case.

Except for those bathrooms with hand dryers which are supposedly environmentally friendly and hygienic, and not like an easy way for the facilities to skimp out on paying for paper towels and their disposal. I have a suspicion that they are probably worse since they are high-wattage when actually used (instead of people just wiping their hands on their pants) and they blow germs everywhere, and if the Dyson ones really loud and accumulate nasty-looking water inside of them, but I have never been able to rigorously test this.

I recall there being a few studies about the Dysons that concluded they were worse than paper drying.

They also create dangerous levels of sound for children and other people who’s ears are close to them when in use.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4918665/

Why do they need a door?

Motorway service stations in the UK don't have doors on the entrance to the restroom just to the stalls. Same in many airports around the world.

Ok, smaller facilities might need doors but quite a few really don't.

There are 3d-printable parts you can put on top of your door handle to be able to open it with your arms instead of your hands:

https://www.dezeen.com/2020/04/27/handle-hacks-hands-free-do...

https://www.materialise.com/en/hands-free-door-opener

I open them with my elbow, provided they don't have a knob. Door knobs are less popular nowadays anyway.

Only the first 3d model on that first linked page is for a knob. The others are for handles.

I've seen music stores who have repurposed their hi-hat stands for this exact device.

Not ADA compliant, therefore not worth it in the eyes of most businesses.

What problem does it solve? Consider a normal hand sanitizer bottle with a pump. Pressing the pump with your hand may make your hand dirty (theoretically) but you can immediately disinfect it with the drop of sanitizer you just dispensed!

Honestly my theory here is that my hand is probably clean, but I am disinfecting to reduce harm to others or myself. Once I touch that bottle, standing in a public place for days touched by hundreds of random hands, I think my hand is not merely unclean, but looks a lot like Emil in Robocop after he gets smashed into that green goop at the end of the movie.

I prefer to use the soles of my shoes frankly - and if I prefer it I suspect most others would hence increasing the likelihood of use and so efficacy of the solution.

Assume that's true, what if you knew 100% that the person who touched the sanitizer pump seconds before you has COVID and has snot on his hands. What's the problem? You're going to disinfect that, right?

If you knew that, you might choose to avoid the area because the disinfectant probably isn’t 100% effective (not to mention you don’t want to be breathing the air right around where an infected person was just breathing). That’s not really a contradiction.

If you think like this, then of what use is the sanitizer in the first place?

Except for the times where there is no sanitizer, so now your hand is "extra dirty" in your mind.

A small window on the bottle will solve that.

The people who install things like that generally don’t have that in their mind when doing so.

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