“Protests.” Let’s be honest on both sides. What’s going on in Portland is violent rioting. “Demonstrators” don’t burn cars in the street, but rioters do.
Now I am not sympathetic to those who claim that Police aren't justified in declaring many of these unlawful gatherings, but I am also not sympathetic to those calling it riots. What is actually happening from my local perspective is that there are mostly peaceful protests with a minority who are engaging in criminal activity. And this is coming from someone whose building's lower windows are boarded up and has seen a rash of attempted break-ins to facilities like our mail room.
But regardless of the gray area of how local Police are trying to walk the line between shutting down criminal activity and respecting the majority's freedom of assembly, it is NOT ok for Federal Agents to be acting in any way besides securing Federal properties. Border Patrol is not local law enforcement. Federal Protective Service is not local law enforcement. Neither should have authority to do anything related to local law enforcement and they most definitely should not be doing anything off of Federal property. It's not their job to police Portland and no one wants them policing Portland; no matter what your views on the current state of unrest that much should be true.
So let me be honest, these aren't riots. Take it from a local...but also note that this local is not a participant so my perspective is from an arm's length at best.
I'm a local, that lives within a 5 block radius of where this has been going on for weeks. I'd call them riots. I've seen with my own eyes, both sides shooting munitions at each other. Property is being destroyed. People are being assaulted.
This [0] happened last night. These videos have become so common over the past month, they're turning into the norm. I was woken up at 1:30 am this morning listening to PPB giving rioters a 5 minute warning to vacate before they start applying force. It's out of hand. I'm not surprised at all that the Feds have come in to defend Federal property and restore order.
[0] - https://twitter.com/FromKalen/status/1284384833653731334
Neat, I also live 5 blocks away from the Edith Green - Wendell Wyatt Federal Building.
And what I said is that there is violence going on and PPD has been trying to walk the line of declaring unlawful gatherings while respecting freedom of assembly for the majority who are non-violent. I am fine with Federal agents defending Federal property; I am not ok with Federal agents using unmarked vans to leave Federal property and snatch suspects.
> And what I said is that there is violence going on and PPD has been trying to walk the line of declaring unlawful gatherings while respecting freedom of assembly for the majority who are non-violent.
Since it seems like it wasn't clear let me try to elucidate. There IS violence going on that is not acceptable. But there are ALSO peaceful protests occurring. It is my perspective that the MAJORITY of participants are not violent, but this is not an excuse for the violent behavior of the minority.
It's not accurate to broadly classify all the protests as riots. It's also not accurate to call all protest participants rioters. Doing so is a gross simplification; as gross a simplification as those trying to say these are just peaceful protests.
Orthogonal to this unfortunate line the PPD has been forced to walk for an extended time, Federal agents should not be doing anything other than securing Federal property. To again quote myself:
> I am fine with Federal agents defending Federal property; I am not ok with Federal agents using unmarked vans to leave Federal property and snatch suspects.
So rather than resort to a false adhominem (claim that I didn't stay on target), perhaps you could instead forward the conversation.
Although, perhaps it is best we politely leave things as they are since I think enough has been said. But if you think there are things I should be made aware of or still have something to add, I welcome further civil discourse.
No, I offered first-hand observation of what I would consider riotous behavior.
I’m not arguing any of your other points.
So it would seem re-reading the thread with that context, we actually agree. There is riotous behavior occurring, although not all participants are rioters. Regardless, Feds shouldn't be doing anything other than securing Federal property.
Feel free to add nuance to the summary, not trying to speak for you, just recapping as best I can.
If we're being honest, then we should recall the way CHOP in Seattle was characterized by the right as some sort of Mad Max murder hellscape, and how that bore virtually no resemblance to what was happening. We should consider how this movement may be similarly misrepresented by conservative voices to present a vision of the left-leaning Pacific Northwest as somehow "out of control".
But regardless of the protests, we have militarized federal agents patrolling the streets of a city where they are not welcomed by city or state leadership. It should scare the shit out of everybody. I stand with Mayor Wheeler and city leadership in wishing they would leave.
Why can’t law enforcement do this by the book?