You actually want to be on those, because that's where half of the nonsense comes from that you then have to deal with on the job.
It became apparent early in the call that although we were talking in some detail about integrating two complex and complicated systems, no-one on the call was a developer (except myself, lapsed).
It had never occurred to me that the powers that be might do that. Next time (and from then on) there were developers involved, at least from our side.