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Comment by pmoriarty | Hacker News Reader

If testing was required to go to work, go to school, enter a restaurant, a bar, or a theater, people would do it.

Wearing a mask is required for many of these activities are people still refuse.

No mask, no service.. surely businesses can refuse service out of safety concerns

It's not always that simple: French bus driver attacked over mask rules dies [https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/11/europe/france-philippe-mongui...]

I mean, murders also illegal. The legality of enforcing a mask order is easy, the process of actually enforcing that rule might not be.

Can confirm that every day in Seattle I am seeing customers not wearing masks and businesses serving them without issue even though they are not allowed to.

When you own a business, the customer is always right.

I’ve noticed that opinion always comes from people who don’t deal with customers directly.

I own a business, and while a customer might not be right, I always treat them like they are right. Thus, the saying.

So, you now cannot say "always" in that statement, because I deal with customers daily.

My daughter works a minimum wage job. Her stories about her coworkers are appalling. For instance, a bunch of them went to a crowded rave after work one day and most of them got the virus, but they didn’t say anything and kept showing up for work until one of them became symptomatic and then it came out.

My point is, the minimum wage workers at many of these businesses could not care less whether you are following mask rules or not.

Many minimum-wage workers desperately need that income (maybe not middle-class teens working summer jobs) so it's unsurprising that they'll come to work sick.

Here we go. Let's jump from convincing to requiring. This is the difference between freedom and tyranny, and the fact so many Americans are ready to make that jump is outrageous.

Schools already require proof of vaccination and antibody testing. Workplaces already have dress codes. Conflating mandatory testing or mask wearing with tyranny is why we're losing.

There's arguments to be said that this is a violation of ADA and grounds for massive lawsuits.

See: https://www.workplacefairness.org/medical-privacy-workplace#...

Also, just as a personal aside...I will gladly join massive, maskless protests to underscore that I will never accept medical testing as a condition of engaging in society. This is a completely unacceptable violation of civil liberties.

I assume you're referring to "Section 4. Can my employer require me to take medical tests in order to keep my job?"

But that section explicitly states, "... unless they are related to your job and necessary for the conduct of your employer's business.

I think there's a pretty strong case that the health and safety of fellow employees and/or customers during a pandemic qualifies.

Yeah, no. There is no clause in the Constitution that says "except in a pandemic". We've had far worse pandemics than Covid-19, from tuberculosis to smallpox to Spanish flu, and no such provision was ever required. So if you want to get an amendment to the Constitution, start collecting signatures.

I’m sorry, but you’re just not right.

The Supreme Court has repeatedly held that the government has a pretty wide reaching authority when it comes to fighting disease. If the federal government can quarantine entire towns and force vaccines, they can similarly force you to be tested.

No, they haven't. There's no such precedent in U.S. history.

They can't quarantine towns from the federal level. Not in the least. A state might be able to, because the 10th amendment is a thing, but Federal government cannot. And neither state nor federal government can force vaccines because it violates the 4th amendment. You don't get to search my body for diseases and use them to discriminate against me. Sorry. Furthermore, Roe v. Wade was argued on the basis of a right to privacy that's implicit. So no, I'm right on this.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/05/15/national-q...

I mean, you’re entitled to your opinion, but at least some people disagree.

Edit: and, your claim that there is no such precedent is a flat out lie.

No such precedent? George Washington forced vaccinated his entire army from smallpox. There is precedence from the very start of the country.

I am so embarrassed on your behalf.

Wikipedia says Jenner first demonstrated the smallpox vaccine in 1796. The revolutionary war ended in 1783.

According to a tiny bit of research, it was a crude form of smallpox vaccination, yet still a vaccination.

Inoculation, technically.

The constitution doesn't say you have to wear pants either but it's still required. In any case the workplace link you cited is not in the constitution it's the disability law.

Sorry, but you are wrong.

This would no more violate the ADA than random drug testing (legal) or requiring temperature checks, which some employers are already doing to protect against COVID-19.

Also, the ADA is not a constitutional amendment, so even if there is a potential conflict with ADA, Congress could easily address that in a new bill without needing to pass a new constitutional amendment.

From an outside viewpoint, this is an interesting demonstration of a failure mode of the US social and political system.

Of all the hills to die on, "not wearing a safety mask" [0] is one of the more batshit crazy, but in a nation where the people have decided that "schoolchildren being slaughtered in their classrooms" is an acceptable price to pay for free and easy firearms, I guess it's not surprising that "people dying horribly, gasping for breath as their lungs fail" is an acceptable price for not wearing a safety mask.

[0] This poster's particular hill isn't the mask, but it is for some, and if I'm doing "batshit crazy", there it is.

> in a nation where the people have decided that "schoolchildren being slaughtered in their classrooms" is an acceptable price to pay

There hasn't been a single death in California from Coronavirus for any child, period. In the US, there've been about 20 deaths, nationwide, of children from COVID.

Read the whole comment before jumping in. I said the people have decided that schoolchildren being slaughtered in their classrooms is an acceptable price to pay for free and easy firearms.

> "people dying horribly, gasping for breath as their lungs fail" is an acceptable price

Ever heard of big tobacco? I got lots of relatives that died like that after enjoying cigarettes all their life. It is not surprising.

But, when you consider that the second amendment is an inalienable right, one has to wonder how to separate children from their guns.

"Parents, please don't send your child to school with their gun."

It’s peak HN that you’re getting downvoted for explaining your own comment.

Mayhe they didn’t die but this Kawasaki like complication is a thing

They’re making a comparison between our inaction on school shootings to our inaction on COVID. You’ve completely missed their point.

Oh. I get it. They're really shutting schools in the US down because of school shootings. That makes sense.

I genuinely can’t tell if you’re making a bad argument, or if you still don’t get it.

I think you probably agree with the original commenter that school shootings have killed more than the coronavirus (within the age group). They are saying, if people don't really care about the former, it's not surprising they don't care about the latter, which has killed fewer people. Are you really disagreeing with what they said or just the tone?

You know, I actually think you've got a point to make and I can see the shape of it, but you're so inept at expressing yourself that you come across as either completely misunderstanding or just plain wrong. I guess this is still an insulting thing to say, but at least it's not wrapped in snark or passive-aggression.

You are not alone, no matter what the downvotes say.

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