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Comment by ardy42 | Hacker News Reader

>> Unlike powder cocaine, coca leaf has a long history of relatively safe use in the northern Andes. Widespread coca tea use is not considered a public health crisis of any particular concern in Peru and southern Colombia:

> The decriminalization of coca tea in Western countries may lead to less gang activity as illegal cocaine manufacture economics shift from large-scale to small-scale extraction.

Who would substitute coca tea for cocaine? Decriminalized marijuana has same sought-after effects of criminalized marijuana, so can reduce the crime associated with it. I don't think you'd get the same reduction in cocaine trafficking crime unless you decriminalized refined cocaine.

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Few people would, that's not the point. It seems you are not understanding this part: "shift from large-scale to small-scale extraction". The claim is that cocaine would partly shift to "at home" and local production, which GP correctly points out is currently very common with DMT. The comparison is made because DMT currently has a similar legal situation to what GP suggests for cocaine: legal plant material, but the purified/extracted substance is illegal.

> It seems you are not understanding this part: "shift from large-scale to small-scale extraction". The claim is that cocaine would be fabricated "at home" and locally, which GP correctly points out is currently very common with DMT.

Couldn't you say the same thing about meth, especially in the past when pseudoephedrine medicines were easier to get? It sounds simple enough that regular people can make it from a receipe, but the cartels still traffic it: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/bvgazz/sinaloa-cartel-dru....

I believe cocaine is a bit easier than meth, though I'm no chemist. In any case, you're certainly right that it wouldn't kill the black market, but it would still weaken it (I edited my post on this point, sorry for the confusion).

If you can get an ephedrine compound a synthesis for meth is possible where you just throw everything in a pot and come back to it. Small scale production used to be fairly prolific based on total consumption. That said its total production volume in that manner was low.

>Who would substitute cocaine with coca tea?

There are really two things to respond to here: first, all powder cocaine starts as the leaf, so the powder cocaine market would move downstream to extraction from widely-available coca leaf. This is the biggest reason we haven't tried this already. However, I hope that the economics will not favor transporting large amounts of still-illegal cocaine across long distances, so that instead it will mostly be produced near the point of consumption, with lower profit margins and less violence.

Second, addicts are more likely than you think to recognize their own usage as a problem, yet rely on the drug to do things that most people expect to be able to do. Someone who uses cocaine so they can focus on work or participate in social activities would probably be willing to substitute at least some of their usage with tea, if it were cheaper than powder and legal. Drug abuse isn't usually a problem of simple uncontained hedonism. It's not a perfect analogy, but the availability of beer probably likewise moderates the demand for spirits.

Coca leaves are not a substitute for cocaine. Most coke addicts will switch to amphetamines and booze if they're desperate, not some tea.

You could say the same for opiate users but there's regular reports of kratom use amongst them. Kratom is just a herbal tea.

Kratom does not contain opioids and very little is still understood about it's pharmacology.

It is not the same as drinking coca tea for cocaine addiction.

Yup. Lots of opioid users use it to get off of heroin and other drugs.

Why is that?

Coca tea is far, far too weak to even get a similar effect to cocaine. For example, It takes ~1 lb of coca leaves to get 1 g of cocaine using chemical extraction, so the tea doesn't even come close.

Most coke addicts will switch to amphetamines and booze, which gives similar dopaminergic effects.

This is a bit of an exaggeration. 1 gram is well above a typical dose.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coca_tea

>A cup of coca tea prepared from one gram of coca leaves (the typical contents of a tea bag) contains approximately 4.2 mg of organic coca alkaloid.[1] (In comparison, a typical dose (a "line") of cocaine contains between 20 and 30 milligrams.[2])

It's fair to point out that there is still a discrepancy and many habitual cocaine users have some tolerance to the drug, but it's not impossible to drink five cups of tea. Also, it looks like you'd need more like half a pound.

A typical ingested dose is close to 200mg or so which is still a fifth of a kg of raw leaves. (A 200mg dose lasts longer than insufflation, about 4-6 hours, and during that duration is about as strong as insufflation.)

A "typical dose" is 40-60 mg, lasts 45 minutes, and leaves you wanting more. A coke addict will need at least a gram no matter what they're doing, hence why a gram is a benchmark for coke use.

Nobody is going to drink 10 cups of coca tea every 45 minutes. They're going to pop adderall and hit the bottle.

A 1920s alcohol prohibition that banned only hard liquor while allowing beer and wine might well have lasted until the present day. I think there really is a willingness to substitute legal "soft" versions of drugs (or other contraband) for "hard" ones.

I've actually had coca tea, and it's basically just tea.

Which is notably not like cocaine.

It would have to be some damn strong mate de coca. I've drank it on several occasions, and from what I could tell, it was less of a stimulant than coffee.

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