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Comment by samvaran | Hacker News Reader

Basic question - where will all these 747s actually physically go to be retired? Will there be a landfill somewhere with a huge amount of airplane parts? Will they be left to rust in some hangar in the middle of nowhere?

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Most of them end up in dry desert areas in the southwest United States: https://www.airplaneboneyards.com/airplane-boneyards-list-an...

Huh—are these (presumably huge) areas guarded? Am I stupid for wondering what's to stop a group from making off with a plane?

Well, they don’t leave the keys in the ignition ;)

Or fuel in the tank.

And it’s probably being blocked in by other planes. Those desert boneyards don’t park planes with random access in mind.

Looks like they leave fuel in the tank if it’s for short term storage, but they drain various fluids if it’s longer term storage. Probably depends on the circumstances.

Precisely—and this circumstance is retirement with no prospect of a quick sale.

At a guess, they’ll probably have limited parts value, only that which would be valuable to operators of 747 freighters. Mainly the engines, if they’re in good nick.

As a random fun fact planes don't have keys.

Do they have some other authentication mechanism instead?

Airliners generally do not.

The authentication method is knowing how to fly said plane and getting in said plane in the first place.

The planes that are relatively accessible aren't flightworthy without effort, and the planes that are flightworthy require violating federal law (in the US) to access them.

I don't think the law was a deterrent to 9/11 te'rists.

>and the planes that are flightworthy require violating federal law (in the US) to access them.

That doesn't really answer the question though. Breaking into a house also violates laws, yet it happens all the time. If you've made it onto an airport tarmac, can you just steal a plane?

It's happened before

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Horizon_Air_Q400_incident

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/12/opinions/seattle-stolen-plane...

> most airlines do not lock airplanes because access can only be obtained by security vetted employees through jet bridges and coded door ramp access.

It's logistically very difficult. Getting fuel into it usually takes a special truck, so you'd need access to that (when a plane is parked overnight it would have a little bit of fuel in it, but not enough to get very far after taking off). Even getting into the plane is difficult - you'd need a stair truck, and somebody to move the stairs out of the way when you're in. If it's parked somewhere where you can't just taxi out, you need somebody in a tug to do a pushback.

So assuming you're that far in, and you know how to start it up, you don't have a flight plan logged, so the tower isn't going to give you clearance to take off. If you take off without permission, they're going to call the air force, so you'd better be in a country that doesn't have a very big air force or a nearby base, and you probably want to choose somewhere where you can get into another country's airspace who isn't friendly with the country you stole the plane from...

it's easier than you might think. for example, on a 747 you don't need external stairs, since access is available via the nose wheel landing gear bay [0] according to a pilot.

0. https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/2605/can-large-...

Some small ones do.

For planes that are being retired, they usually take the engines off pretty early because they have some of the most valuable parts for resale in them.

They’d also be drained of all fluids. For planes in storage to be used again later, they fill all the fuel, hydraulic, etc. lines with special liquids to keep them preserved. So it’d be at least a week’s work for a team to get a stored plane going.

Most 747s won't be used again.

Could I buy one to have in my backyard?

Any idea on price?

Assuming you don’t have a 1500–2000 metre heavy aircraft runway in your backyard, it’s the shipping costs that would likely kill you.

I guess it would have to be disassembled and shipped in pieces.

Unless a cargo blimp can take it. Do such things exist?

The Airlander 10 wrote off their old prototype, and has a maximum payload of 10 tonnes, whereas an unloaded 747 is about 180 tonnes. Remember it's a plane so big that they used to piggyback the space shuttle orbiters (which are not small) on it.

Sounds like it could be done in 20 trips.

Also sounds like even if they give the plane away, just shipping it will be a ~7 digit expense.

I hereby withdraw my interest!

I know nothing about this, but there are people who move their houses, surely a plane is easier than that.

Check out the "spruce goose" and how it was moved.

I think you are grossly underestimating just how large a 747 is.

I believe just like storing a car for a long time, fluids are drained and other items removed/wrapped for storage. You can't just jump in the cockpit and taxi out to the runway. They are kept in a state that is relatively easy to restore to functioning status but not in functioning status.

Good luck taking off without fuel and any ground equipment, not to mention any consumables that would have to be replaced after prolonged stay in a desert.

Isn't this only for planes with some value left? Either they're for parts or might fly again? Otherwise, wouldn't you just cut up the airframe and sell it for scrap?

Now, composite planes are a different story. I doubt there's any value in scrap carbon fiber.

I suspect some may be sold to freight lines for conversion but many will end up in aircraft boneyards https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_boneyard

They'll almost certainly become cargo carriers. It's the main use for 747s these days.

Can passenger versions get converted to cargo?

edit: hmm, looked into it for a minute, and while it has been done, it doesn't sound very popular at the moment due to cost: http://www.aircargopedia.com/passengertofreightpg.htm https://centreforaviation.com/analysis/reports/air-cargo-boo...

Certainly can, even temporarily (this is an A380, but I assume it works for any aircraft).

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/a380-hi-fly-auxilary-frei...

That was the sales pitch when most observers thought the 747 was going to be the last subsonic long-haul passenger plane. "Don't worry about the supersonic plane we're currently designing, you'll be able to sell your 747 as a great easy-conversion cargo plane once the SST comes out."

Google "desert aircraft boneyards". They will be parted out for pieces to keep remaining models of the same type flying, and when that's not economical anymore, they are cut up for aluminum scrap.

This guy could upgrade to a two-story house

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oquV0vvhjh0

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