When your coworker does great work, tell their manager
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I heard from my friends at Facebook that the environment there is equally crazy. Everyone knows that the performance reviews are based on lazy stats, so they game the stats. Every time someone requests a meeting, they are expected to give a "thank you" which is one of the measures for performance. Also, things like the number of reviews commented on could be easily gamed by adding a "+1!" as a comment which sounds like another undesirable place to work at. Maybe current Facebook employees can comment, however.
Raises were completely divorced from any performance assessment. You were paid whatever they thought the max was for your skillset, based on a bunch of data they had on what people at other companies got paid for similar work.
What we did have was 360 reviews once a year. It was basically a small survey you could fill out about anyone in the company, which they and their manager would see. You could evaluate your boss, your VP, or people who worked for you, or anyone else you worked with anywhere in the company. It was expected that managers do a 360 review for all of their reports, but beyond that you could do as few or as many as you wanted to. It was basically a start/stop/continue kind of thing.
It was such a refreshing change from the stack ranking at eBay, which forced good people to get shitty reviews just so they could "fit the bell curve". And as you said, it incentivized you to not praise coworkers and some people even actively sabotaged their coworkers to get a better rank.
Honestly I would never work at a place like this. Maybe it's lean and efficient for the company, but it definitely doesn't sound fun for the employee.
When you get let go, they ask in the exit interview if you were warned, if your manager gave you any feedback leading up to it, etc. And then they follow up if the person says, "it was a total shock". I've definitely seen managers make some bad firing decisions, but they were let go soon afterwards. Word gets around quickly to their manager that they let go someone who was a strong contributor.
Why would anyone give any kind of useful information in the exit interview? The only one who benefits is the company, they need to cover their back in case a suit over harassment comes up. If anyone wants revenge over poor management, keep silent, let the fellow continue to lose the company money and set them up for a lawsuit.
HR is not on your side. The company is not on your side. The union would be, but in software we can't have that.
I'm sorry for going a bit offtopic, but I have noticed this weird linguistic contortion "get let go" often. Why the euphemisms? You get fired. It doesn't hurt to speak plainly. This "let go" expression seems weirdly childish, like how people say that someone "passed on" to avoid confronting the hard reality of death.
And I'm not picking on you, I know that almost everyone talks like this now.
I guess "the firings will continue until morale improves?"
My wife worked there for a year, and was used to seeing the emails to her dept. saying so-and-so was fired once or twice a week. Eventually she quit because of it, but she had an overall positive experience.
Instead the Netflix process sounds a lot more fair. If everyone is awesome, no one needs to be fired.
If you do something negative to someone, that person will either directly address it with you or your manager at the time. The reviews are more to address longer term behavior.
I love how it creates the side effect that bad managers get fired if they fire a good employee (as you mentioned elsewhere). Its not even a written rule, but just through social physics it seems to bring out the correct outcome for people who actually add/subtract value.
I bet they also save a lot of money simply by not employing people who do nothing but look good and smooch around while being a negative contributor, since those people typically cost the most. And, a small portion of the money saved goes back into the salary of those who deserve it for the rate they are worth making them glad to stick around and help them succeed.
I left to start a startup. I would work there again in second if I ever go back to working for someone else (and they had a role for me).
School is a prime example, in my opinion - there is so much I "learned" in school that I'll never remember, because I didn't take a proper approach to learning - I just optimized for grades. I had a 4.7 GPA and could hardly tell you a thing about US history or recite a lick of Spanish, because I simply did not care about anything but getting the A so I could get into the college I cared about.
In the work environment, I can see a lot of parallels to this. If I'm competing with my coworkers, my incentive is to outwork and outshine them. A common thing I see is when a coworker does a bit of innovative work - it's almost guaranteed some other coworker will intercede before a chance at applause is given to discuss its obvious flaws, the plethora of alternatives out there, etc., leading the developer to feel like their implementation was not good. (For the record, I'm not talking about general criticism - I'm talking about the general pattern of not celebrating someone's achievements and then discussing how to continue improving, but rather a "why did you even do this" mentality).
The host shares a personal story from time when he was a cashier. The grocery chain measured performance as items scanned per minute and shared internal leaderboard.
Some items are hard to scan so the cashiers ended up skipping scanning them – so the store gave them away for free. But the managers were happy about their KPIs. (Look how many items are we suddenly selling per minute!)
[0] - https://www.npr.org/transcripts/669396192 (both podcast and transcript)
I love this podcast.
"Is there anything else I can help you with?"
And then immediately after that:
"No, ok I will close this chat."
Almost all call centres reward agents for short calls.
The supervisors were pretty swift and always looking for shrink. If you were letting dog food or whatever walk out the door, they would figure it out quickly and you would be gone.
The GMs were well paid and profitability and shrink were their metrics.
Maybe it's Goodhart's Law: "When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure."
If velocity gets turned into a target, corners will be cut (less testing, poor code quality) in order to get those story points for that sprint. Code quality suffers and tech debt accumulates, reducing output down the road.
On the flip side, as time goes on teams could just progressively estimate a greater number of points to stories of similar difficulty during the planning process. So velocity goes up but actual deliverable features goes down or stays the same.
at my company, raises have more to do with the financial situation of the company than subjective reviews (although we do have these, they just don't factor into compensation that much). if the company is doing well, everyone gets a nice raise. everyone gets the same percentage bonus every year which is calculated based on the entire company's performance. maybe this makes us unattractive for very competitive people, but it leads to a very cooperative environment. senior devs don't really have anything to lose by spending a few hours helping newer people, so they just do it.
I think this theory may be true in some fields like hedge funds or heavy sales performance based businesses.
In software, I am not sure high productivity people care about this issue, as long as their compensation is high enough.
That circles back to the original problem of how do you identify the high productivity people to give them high compensation. It works when the person spending the money is close enough to evaluate employee performance. But when it's some middle manager spending Zuckerburg's money you run into the agent/principle problem. The managers will do what's best for them (raises for everyone!) and not the enterprise.
So high productivity people who don't want everyone else to benefit are a bit of an oxymoron.
(* or at least most others)
Obviously metrics vs just manager instinct/observation will benefit and harm different people in different ways.
A combination would be better. But life isn't really fair or objective, end of the day I'd rather work with someone I like and can socialise with and know working with them is stress free (which means my work is better) and can be trusted to just do their thing even if their performance is lower than someone who's a pain to work with but maybe puts in more hours.
Making software is a combination of engineering + artistry, it's not flipping X burgers an hour, objective performance isn't important it's the contribution of the whole individual.
[0] : I did have a manager judge me on this before, all it meant was I'd stay up all night, go into work, sit there like a zombie doing close to nothing, go home then sleep. Doesn't matter if I was barely doing anything, by their bum on seat metric I was doing great.
Every year, and once a year, all the managers in the company submit bids to the employees that they want to work under them. Employees then select their favorite bid, and that becomes their new manager. Employees are free to accept/reject bids based on any criteria: Salary/PTO/On-call requirements, etc.
In theory, you have a list of things to check for each category of performance. If you tick enough boxes, you get a certain category. In reality, it seems managers stack rank, and then apply the required curve to the stack rank. If everybody on your team does their job as expected (or better), too bad, X% need to be flagged as poor performers as declared by the performance curve.
Which is more fair? Note that objective measurement of the wrong thing will reward people for stuff other than quality, and probably stuff beyond their control.
Sadly, many people who don't do well take their feedback to mean that they need more code commits or comments. Some of them might even succeed at gaming the system for a short while due to a bad manager. The truth from my experience is that as long as you drive meaningful impact, and are able to convince you manager and others of it, you will be doing well. Falling back to silly stat numbers is the toolset of people who don't have enough achievements. In a way, good numbers don't mean good performance. But bad performance really does correlate with bad numbers. So people who are unhappy with their ratings will deduce that is the problem. It's aggravated by the fact people with good ratings don't boast about it (which is considered rude). I've noticed similar effects in college with grades. Judging by the vocal people one could assume the majority of the class failed at the exam, since whoever succeed will do well to not rub in their friends' faces)
* Personally I do use numbers in reviews, but only as a secondary way to backup my claims for what I did, or why it was important
* * If you are convinced that your manager and team only cares about stats, I recommend switching to another team or company when you have the opportunity.
Or perhaps it was meaningful to create a tool that was used to monitor and manipulate millions of people to vote In a particular way?
I do a good job because I'm a professional, and care about what my peers think about me. I'm not competing with them, I'm living up to the high standards that they have to me and vice versa. I don't do a good job because of some carrot on a stick tier "promotion" or "raise". Those are easy enough to get by job hopping or having the option of job hopping.
The PSC cycle (bi-annual review) is stressful, which I think is where the "craziness" stems. OTOH, there's not much day to day oversight - employees have an insane amount of freedom - so these 2x / year reviews are the tradeoff. ICs have tons of freedom, then twice a year, have to stand account for how they spent the last 6 months, compared to what other people in the same role and at the same level have done. (It's not stack ranking, it's more like grading on a curve across very different exam questions.)
There are mechanisms to provide feedback more frequently than every 6 months. It's agreed that the manager failed at their job if an IC is surprised by how a review ends up.
(FB also has 360 reviews every 6 months, offset from PSC by 3 months. These are usually upward reviews, and they are taken very seriously. Results from these determine manager career progression, so it's a chance for ICs to have their voices really well heard.)
Gaming the stats does exist, just as it exists everywhere. I think this is probably the only part that I don't strongly disagree with. It's also a hard problem to solve, with significant tradeoffs for different approaches. (And might be the most interesting piece)
I'm an Eng Manager at FB and my experience matches fbanon9876's.
In the rating calibration sessions I've been a part of, stats come into play as a data point in the overall package and usually as factors IN SUPPORT of improving someone's rating. i.e. This higher level person wasn't really driving a lot of cross-function efforts, but man were they shipping code...and vice versa.
I'm over 20 years into my career and have been around the block a few times at companies large and small. Overall, I feel that FB's performance process is, by a massively wide margin, the most fair process I've been a part of.
Also, one of the reasons for high pressure at FB is that there is a serious financial incentive for top performance. We're talking 25%-300% multiplier to your bonus AND stock refresh. For those at levels where RSU is a big part of your compensation, that can literally mean a 6 figure bump for 4 years. Contrast that at other companies I've been at, where I've received top ratings that resulted in a pay increase of 4% instead of the standard 2% and an extra 1-5% on my annual bonus.
I read a lot of conflicting things on teamblind or glassdoor about a poor WLB. It's hard to tell if this was someone in their early 20s out of school struggling to work with a large company or someone mid 30s that burned out.
If you just do your obligations does it look bad? I mean not everyone can be a top performer, especially if there is a curve. Some companies will PIP you out, but I can't quite get the vibe at FB.
I'd love to join, I interviewed last year but went thru some personal grief and didn't really prep well then failed the interview. I'd like to time to properly study this year because the process as was very do-able if you put in the effort.
I personally do 9-6, take my coffee breaks really seriously, sometimes to later work like reply to messages if I'm in the mood, and never (save for very very rare shitstorms) work on the weekend.
Teams vary, I've seen plenty of 9-5ers that make it work (some of them on my team). As you already pointed out, I also think younger people tend to overwork, and people with kids tend to reprioritize and go for a 9-5 schedule.
Since one gets to choose the team they join in Facebook (in contrast to being offered a job in a specific team) you get to choose a team that will fit your personality. This means you should pick a team not only based on their project, but also based on the people and the team's culture, and if you pick wrong, you can rather easily switch.
You can get PIPed out at FB, but in my org it's very, very, rare. Out of 100 people, only a few people received a rating that was less than "Meets All Expectations" and none were in danger of a PIP.
Regardless, people are measured by the work they do and against expectations of their level. There is no "hours your butt is in a chair" requirement. The big caveat is that some teams are more hectic than others and quality of managers may vary.
Compared to my previous... 4 jobs (+1 company founded), this is the 2nd lowest stress. The one lower stress job had 1/3 the compensation, no career growth, and was just a "marking time" federal tech job. YMMV.
But once you ask folks to do it and there's any positive outcome ... it becomes a thing.
I've been a part of similar systems and as soon as it is sort of institutionalized, it is a nightmare.
It became office politics and groups of mutual admiration clubs, and frankly a lot of folks who maybe needed to up their game in the view of their bosses got in on these sort of mutual admiration clubs. More so than those who didn't, and that really skewed things.
The underlying fact is a complement from a coworker might have jack squat to do with ... actually doing anything good, it could even be because of a bad thing, who knows, you just never know.
As soon as it isn't 'organic' it becomes kinda horrible.
Right, the incentive problem is especially hard here, because "compliments" and "praise" by definition involve unverified info, so it's really easy for the whole thing to devolve into a popularity contest, and you can only avoid this by discouraging it. OTOH it might still be possible to reward employees for praise of coworkers that involves some amount of verifiability. It's not that everything is going to be verified after-the-fact, but the possibility has to be real so that everyone's behavior is kept in line.
If you're not good a marketing a product, you should still spend 100% of your effort on making it great, and hire a marketing person to do the other part.
At that point, it's really your and your manager's (and so forth) responsibility to ensure your product or tool is in the right hands and helps people.
My manager was great at taking on some of the burdens and shielding me from above, while still giving me the flexibility and incentive to work with other teams and people to make sure I was the one everyone recognized for the work done, as opposed to the team or him.
When your head is down in an interesting, thorny problem, it is easy to forget how those other folks are affected by your work, and it's easy to lose appreciation for the fact that their head is filled with a completely different information set. So it can be very useful to spend 5% of your time on this.
Or heck, just try 2.5% - one hour out of a standard work week. Personal anecdote: I wrote up a little thing about why customers would pick one video encoder over another, and marketing just did backflips and started asking my manager if I could write more things.
Focusing on your own silo and blaming others for the team's failure results in dysfunction, not success. Instead, take ownership of your job and (shared) ownership of the other jobs that interact with it.
In either case, at some point you have to convince someone else that it's worth investing their time. External, this can be dollars (although is that really the best way?). Internally (and optimally), you still need to self-market your product to marketers.
Either way, it's better to spend at least a little time doing marketing. Boiled down from all the hype and jargon, marketing is highlighting the benefits to another person. If an IC is working on a project where they don't know the benefits, there is a larger issue.
You can't hire a marketing person for yourself. Marketing yourself and your work is important because things don't magically get discovered or recognized.
There are a lot of medium-small employers in lesser-known or unsexy domains that under normal circumstances struggle to compete with FAANG/similar to find people. How many are hiring right now I don't know, but it might be an option.
What if you're consistently doing good work but have zero visibility? Then years down the road, you notice a trend of people around you getting promotions/raises/bounses more often than you? The same people that slack off & lack integrity; to name a few. As a human being with emotions... can you honestly say you won't feel resentful in your moment of realization?
I am asking as someone who's been in that situation more times than I care to admit... I do good work for myself and for the sake of doing good work; I take pride in the work I do... but as most of it was never communicated, no one knew about it and just took it's results for granted; I was bypassed for raises, promotions, etc... Was it worth it? I can't give you a answer... it's a very conflicting place to be.
I think people have an obligation to share the work they do, especially if it's interesting or impactful. Because if you don't, then generally no one else will.
Granted my role is very crossfunctional, but I think it's pretty unusual to be consistently impactful working in your own silo. So boosting my collaborators gets me the visibility benefits, without feeling insincere, and contributes to a work culture that is collaborative and supportive.
For context, I lead an analytics team at a FAANG company.
I'm bad at communicating when I've worked on something challenging, so now I realize I should never give more effort than can be noticed. You may think that's cynical, but this is a business and I'm paid not on what I actually do but what the business perceives me of doing.
Mine is ruined and this might have contributed a little. I'll never be more than an intermediate developer and I'm worried about being fired/laid off.
I’ve since moved on to different positions at different companies and am doing plenty fine. I’m even the senior member on a new team I’m joining now.
A few bad years or even many bad years don’t end your career :)
Do you mean this at your specific company? I felt the same way in my last company because there was definitely nowhere to go up, but I've since moved on and am in a more senior role.
I'm also just tired of the bullshit and and mind games that management plays. My current plan is to gamble in the stock market and 'retire' whenever I can't take it anymore or get fired. I would love to retire to run a small farm and/or work a retail job like Lowes.
Whether this works or not depends if you have any psychopathic coworkers, which isn't something you can really know very easily.
I also don't think the actions of others really define whether or not you are "intermediate," unless you're only talking about some corporate ladder bullshit.
I'm also becoming demoralized after being looked over or screwed over for about 4 years.
I loved giving a brown bag on Raspberry Pi project to my teammates. I know it's not a great work related topic, but installing and using linux and tips on securing it was at least tangentially related.
I have to say, I wish I made lots of money.
I wonder how this kind of thinking starts. Is there any rationale for this?
If a coworker is given an above average grade, it means I'm much less likely to get one.
But in practice it doesn't matter too much because managers tend to distribute grades depending on time since last promotion/significant raise, to be able to justify the next one.
The first iteration can work very well. But what about the next iterations? People will adapt to the process and change their behavior.
Under stacked ranking, if you are interviewing someone brilliant that can potentially be the strongest member on your team, is it in your best personal interest to hire that person?
The answer is: no. Because if you add high performance members to your team, with each iteration of stacked ranking not only it will be harder for you to be promoted, but you will be closer to being terminated.
So what ends up happening is that people hire the worst possible candidates, which defeats the purpose of stacked ranking. With stacked ranking, instead of iterating towards stronger people, you iterate towards mediocre, political people.
This is such an American story :-)
I don't think there's any other developed country where you can remain an individual contributor, a developer, and quadruple your income in 2 years. Heck, in most other developed countries the whole salary range for a profession is about 2x, from the lowliest junior developer to the highest senior developer. To make more you'd have to become a consultant, so basically start your own company, which is an entirely different kettle of fish.
My name checks out :)
Which is exactly what the employer wants.
It's also why they don't want people talking to each other about their salaries, which is a practice that needs to die.
I think that's not quite right. You have incentive to compliment those who you would rather be working with, which hopefully correlates pretty well with those who deserve compliment. Of course, this is weighed against your other incentives, some of which are probably more important.
This comment should not be taken as any meaningful endorsement of stack ranking.
The way this is achieved at my company is having no quantitative performance indicators and having your performance decided in a completely opaque process by leaders three levels above you in the organisation who you have never met.
As a consequence, we have all given up on engaging in the formal side of the performance review process because we know it is a waste of time. However, if you have a good line manager, you end up having a genuine conversation about what went well and what could be done better.
An odd situation, but infinitely preferable to counting up the number of fake "thank you" comments you receive (which just makes me vomit).
named...? :-)
Of course, sales is easier to compare 1:1.
And I've always thought that hard targets would be more stressful than stack-ranking.
Having worked at many companies, I've observed how shockingly easy it is for a manager's assessment of their reports to be colored by "hearsay" whether good or bad.
I once had several members of another team who deeply disgreed with a product decision I'd made complain to my manager that I was being uncooperative, not a team player, etc. To avoid getting fired, I had to ask a bunch of members of various other teams to (honestly) tell my manager what a good job I was doing. Which worked -- according to him I'd really "turned things around" in the space of just a couple weeks (!). In the end it was 100% political, a bad manager who had no idea how to actually assess my work for what it was and so relied entirely on what he was "hearing", and I quit as soon as I could for a better job.
So yes, tell someone's manager when they're doing a great job. But it sucks that we have to rely on this stuff at all, rather than managers who can actually assess your work directly.
I've been in too many performance-review manager meetings where someone under Manager A is up for promotion, and Manager B steps in and says "my engineer had a bad interaction with your engineer" and that's enough to put the promotion at serious risk. Managers are happy enough to effectively kill a promotion with a clean conscience by saying "let's re-evaluate this one in mid-cycle reviews". Sure, set this engineer back 6 months, a year, a year+, no worries all good.
Maybe it helps people to think of their manager/work as being analogous to a startup product? You build an awesome product, but then spend zero budget on sales and marketing, and are then super-sad that you're not magically growing up and to the right.
Conversely somebody who readily gives credit to others might come off as high-integrity and trustworthy. Perhaps a person like that is an incredibly positive influence and valuable member of their team.
Each approach can succeed or fail depending on what your manager values. I wouldn’t say one is more likely to succeed than the other, but if you want to end up working for a boss that values integrity, then I’d suggest taking the integrity route.
Lost in this is just the work ethic of doing incremental non-glamorous work and managers and people around you _doing their job_ by recognizing it. Many corporate perf processes, peer bonuses, and so on simply smudge this over, and they indirectly or directly encourage _fame seeking behaviour_ which is in my opinion the most corrosive thing to a company's long term performance and bottom line.
But just last week I watched the hard work of a coworker get completely bowled over by another manager's "congrats on amazing work" email chain to someone else who used the work of my coworker without recognition.
It's hard to imagine a promo system that rewards hard work, where feedback comes from ones peers, and only promotes a fixed number of people where these kind of zero-sum issues don't appear.
SmallCorp you all work for the bottom line or company goes bust. That acts as a damper on empire builders who build for their own sake, though there is still that behavior.
BigCorp it's unlikely your contributions are going to impact much of that kind of thing, even if you're up in senior management. So you're there for your Career(tm) first, company $$ success second. And in fact that is directly promoted through Perf, etc.
So the aggregate behavior of individuals is not only to self-promote but to encourage the self-promotions of others, that's how we get ahead by the measures defined as "getting ahead" by the company: internal promotion, project glory, internal and external speaking engagements and publications about your project, etc.
So a 100 person "congrats" and "that's amazing!" email (or its equivalent on LinkedIn) or whatever is just reasonable professional behavior. You're not a jerk for promoting yourself, you're just doing what is expected of you. The professional behavior of the modest but "plug along and do my job and help out and not self-promote" person is the one that's suspect in this scenario. The company _wants_ you to self-promote.
I mean that on the macro and the micro level. Does it also lead to bad abstract ideas developing because nobody is willing to be critical, especially of broad approaches? I'm thinking along the lines of: "there are serious and fundamental flaws with the way you guys are approaching this."
Bad design does, though, because it's easy to get lost in the weeds of incremental small code reviews.
In any case teams are ideas... organizational structures, but shipped projects are real things. If the needs/desires of the organizational structure consistently take precedence over the actual needs involved in shipping product, the company is in trouble.
Multiple times in the last few years I've worked on projects that were in direct stated or unstated competition and in parallel development with other projects from different teams, but with the same feature set and target market but different technology stacks and organizational structures. I don't like this, at all.
For that, no internal culture is really needed: Google is in California, a state where the use of positive superlatives is mandatory for every single human interaction :)
We also could file 'thank you / attaboy' paperwork for our colleagues, both in our own department or ones we interacted with. Those were just as valuable (if not more) than ones from the customers.
Over the years (11) during my employment there I received a couple of good letters, and they were recognized by the management in a very sincere way.
To this day of & when I have an extraordinary collaboration with someone in the corporation I'll take the time to write a thank you letter to their manager.
It's just a great practice that harkens back to the old adage, "there's nothing better than a nice handwritten thank you card." Since I'm in management, it serves as a nice means to to move the needle for a colleague in the eyes of the company.
The thing about it was nobody liked it because attaboys were random. They had nothing to do with doing a good job or anything, they showed up randomly.
Most of the time "attaboys" showed up for doing the absolute most basic thing that is part of the job. You do it every day... but randomly an "attaboy" shows up, because by the roll of the dice you helped a nice person, that's it.
In the meantime if you went the extra mile for someone, never would any sort of attaboy would show up. In fact you might even get complaints from those folks.
For the support team watching some manager trot out an "attaboy" for no apparent reason as if it was a merit type thing was kinda demoralizing.
Personally I think it's risky to acknowledge these kind of things in front of a team for that reason unless it's better quantified. I've personally as well been in situations where
I've been outright resentful because the recognition of someone I knew was doing a bad job made it clear we could not expect recognition based on merits, and so what was the point of putting in the effort?
This is why wages are secret. Everyone is convinced they deserve to be in the top half of earners.
https://www.insperity.com/blog/when-employees-discuss-wages/
But random rewards, that were acknowledged to be random actually raised morale across the board, even among those who didn't get it.
The 'reasons' and so forth are often a big deal to people.
Similar things happen when you try to use feedback systems like this as a component of internal review processes - they tend to get gamed extremely quickly.
I'm not sure what benefit one of the certificates (they have serial numbers!) actually confers, but I imagine it's more about the emotional uplift than it is monetary value.
I've long wanted a way to bring this to more workplaces. In previous companies, we had shout-outs at our company all-hands, which were low-effort to write and a fantastic way to recognize a coworker. It didn't involve any $$ compensation, which made it all the more meaningful to me.
I've been trying to start up a blog this year (three posts in 7 months, woo!) and someone recently contacted me to tell me that my RSS feed was down and they didn't want to miss the next post. It carried me into the next week it meant so much.
To my surprise when I first started doing this, the majority of them reply back with a genuine thanks.
It seems like a minefield , when I am trying to focus on my own role, that I have to negotiate the feelings of a colleague as I leave feedback on them. I’d prefer to leave only positive feedback, but what my boss wants is that I need to find an improvement that my colleague has to make. I don’t like it.
If there is , I might considering applying at some point. I assume that if there are, the companies must be relatively small, or in case of larger companies this might happen in selected departments like Skunk Works.
It would just be so refreshing to be able to hear and say the occasional "Hey, you know, actually there is a much better/nicer/less stupid/more efficient way to do what you are doing" without needing to waste time to think how to say that.
But to write out constructive feedback which goes against your colleagues record, so that they have to show how they received this feedback and the steps they did to remedy it, seems a bit much.
For example, how do I know that a certain piece of feedback might be really difficult/impossible for you to fix and then you lose out on a %age salary increase or promotion because of it?
I can’t write ‘mr x could really work on coming to work earlier’, as that’s not my job. What if I write ‘mr x. would have been better to use x pattern in his development because ...’, as that would mean I have oversight of how they are doing their work and I haven’t spoken up in time. Which seems crazy.
If you are doing something wrong or something that can be improved, I would prefer to tell you point in time, and when the context is right.
To leave ‘constructive feedback’ against your personal record removes a lot of context, and has the potential to damage your career and our relationship.
I don’t like it!
Hands down the best company I've worked for and I hope that other companies can do the same. It is indeed refreshing to be able to hear/say "Hey, you know, actually there is a much better/nicer/less stupid/more efficient way to do what you are doing" and be sure that it's not going to be taken badly.
I’m at Yelp, so we’re considered a large tech company, but far smaller than FAANG. Also, this is how it is on my team. The culture can vary a bit team by team however most teams share similar cultures. If folks reading this are at Yelp and their team isn’t like this and considering leaving because of it, you should look into a transfer.
Privileging my own ego over the quality of my client's defense would be unethical, in my opinion.
What really infuriates me is that even though I take the time to provide good feedback on how to improve, other people don't return the favor. I'm young and lazy. I know that my work is terrible. Yet no one has bothered to call me out on it in years or given me meaningful suggestions on areas to work on.
Constructive feedback might hurt someone's feelings for a few minutes, but if it is provides structure on how to improve in the future the recipient will come to appreciate it after a few minutes to calm down.
"Hey GEBBL, you did a really good job on that project. It was great that you focused on the end-to-end problem, and not just the main part that PM asked for. This is something you're better at than some other members on your team -- do you think you could help me keep an eye out during design reviews for gaps along these lines?"
It can also be useful to use a related positive to explain a negative.
"Hey GEBBL, you're usually a good speaker, so I thought you'd want to know that I found your presentation this week a little hard to follow. I think it would have been easier to follow with a high-level overview like the one you included at the beginning of last week's."
You can, of course, look at people's weaknesses to find opportunities for improvement, but you can also look at people's strengths. I think think the best feedback is not only constructive, but also motivating and actionable.
For more difficult feedback to navigate, you should be able to funnel it through a manager. "Hey GEBBL's manager, I noticed that GEBBL checked in a change yesterday without testing it properly. It's not a major thing, but I know you're looking for opportunities to give GEBBL constructive feedback." (If you're going to do this, I suggest trying to do it in a balanced way; share positive feedback too so that it's clear you're not complaining all the time.)
I don't want to be scared to make mistakes, I want to be scared to ship mistakes.
My experience is that it sows distrust in praise.
"You just said something unpleasant to me, so I don't trust the praise you added after is genuine, and now I don't trust the praise you said before is genuine either. I think you added them just to fit the form of a PRP. Maybe that's what you do all the time. So I think you're basically lying to me about the praise, insulting my intelligence and trying to manipulate me by crude emotional bullshit. This makes me angry".
Which is not very useful if you have constructive critical feedback to give, as it is no longer constructive.
In my view, dressing up a shit filling in a sandwich is a form of shallow manipulative wordplay, and for at least some people, it makes them upset and angry, even if they don't show it immediately. Because if it's done often it will make them distrustful. In some sense, they are right to become distrustful.
Most people need to feel some amount of socially rewarding praise and recognition in their working lives.
But if you're often using PRP... you lose the ability to convey praise to them in ways they will experience as actual for real praise.
So I advocate for separating these things out more, and making it known that is intentional.
When there is shit filling to deliver compassionately, work on the meaning itself, not dissonantly trying to simultaneously convey it and hide it, which puts people who notice on permanent alert that your words do not mean what they initially sound like.
Your comment failed at PRP.
You showed how difficult giving criticism is.
At first I found your haiku hard to parse.
But in the end I was enlightened by it.
What do you really get by pointing out the good work of a coworker? A warm fuzzy feeling, to be sure. Maybe greater comradeship. But wait, who's the next person to get a promotion? Maybe it'll be the person you keep praising to management. So you'll probably have to work smarter/harder to get that same praise, hence the same chances at promotion. But you don't want to work that much harder; you're already working hard enough as it is. But that 5% raise and that "senior" title look pretty shiny. <one year later> Hey, how come nobody has been recognizing you for your good work? Meanwhile that coworker you've been praising is now your boss!
This strategy has worked great for me in the long term so far, because I have so many random connections now from every job who like me because I'm friendly. I have a reputation of pulling everyone up around me and being easy to work with because... I am.
Don't compete for a 5% raise for 25% more hours when you can get a 25% raise for 5% less hours somewhere else.
I'm not the kind of person that gets promoted, for whatever reasons, so I've been moving up by moving sideways. It sucks, but it is what it is.
Now, the most difficult part, is when someone in position of power decides to keep silent — like your manager or another high profile individual. In that case, it's better to bounce, you don't want to work in an org that promotes those kind of people.
Peter Thiel said it best in Zero to One. I'm paraphrasing here, if a start up is not rewarding individuals based off of merit, but PR, then it's time to go.
Speaking from my own experience, I tend to be a quiet person who doesn't say much. However, since joining my current team, and having consistently received compliments from both managers and teammates (and seen the same getting passed around to others), it has lead me to make a point of looking for opportunities to do the same. It's become the norm to compliment others on their good work, and passing that up the chain and through official channels when the opportunity presents itself.
If you mention that, you will be seen as whiny and a complainer. But if you praise someone who does it, well now you're being positive. Both things have the same effect, in that they communicate that you want people to do more of a certain behavior ... but they are perceived differently by others in the group.
It has the same effect the other way. If you generally provide positive feedback for good work and someone does mediocre work. Your lack of feedback is noticed, without you actually sticking your neck out and saying anything negative.
I do this out of professional decency, not social justice (angle of the article).
As I became more senior and had junior employees working alongside me, I could see how quickly they would get frustrated when they couldn’t perform at my level. They’d be stuck for days until they ask me for help, and I’d solve the problem in 5 minutes and for a couple of our new guys, that crushed them. Absolutely destroyed their morale.
So I read a few books on emotional intelligence and social interactions and started explicitly saying when someone was doing something right, or calling out where they did their job well while fixing the place where they made a mistake. When someone helps me, I now say “thank you, I appreciate your help”.
It’s night and day. Junior employees wanted to work with me before I did that because they want to learn from me, but now they actually like working with me. I don’t heap on praise and I don’t give praise when it’s not deserved, but when someone legitimately does something right or helps me (no matter how small), I actively tell them with words that I appreciate their help and that they did good work.
It’s the absolute least I can do but it makes a world of difference for people just starting out when a senior staff member compliments their work.
One way to fight this is to push yourself to give TSP: Truthful Specific Positive feedback. Instead of saying “nice job”, say “You did a nice job on that project by making sure to keep stakeholders informed. Especially when the API that was originally scoped got scrapped you made sure to loop people in early.” The former tells them they did a “Nice job” which feels nice but doesn’t tell them what they did right or how to do it well again. Anyone could say "Nice job" without knowing any part of what they contributed.
The latter specifically highlights why you’re saying it’s a nice job. Now they can 1) take that information knowing they can have good results by repeating it and 2) feel better about the thanks/compliment knowing it's based on something they actually did, instead of a just a general pat on the back.
Looping this back to the original post, the more specific your positive feedback is to the manager, the more they can do with it. If I went to my manager and said one of my reports deserves a promotion because "People said they were doing a 'Nice job'", I'd likely be laughed at. But if I go in with "So-and-so did a bang up on job on project X by doing A, B, and C", that's going to be a much more fruitful conversation.
If a promotion is coming down to how someone got thanked by a peer, if that's the differentiator like some of these poster are suggesting, then it's probably not a great place.
Be a good human, thank people and express gratitude whenever they help you. Our culture has become so jaded in some many ways that it actually sort of disarms some folks. they will help you more in the future. When someone asks for help, help them, stretch to do it, it can be hard to ask for help so make it worth their while to take that risk. Give praise, it costs you nothing. It will pay dividends in the long run, big ones that you probably can't imagine yet. Being someone that people like to work with is huge...
I've worked with people from other departments who were both awful and wonderful, and if their bosses didn't include me in their set of peer reviewers, I couldn't highlight that. I think my cross-departmental peer review would've been much more valuable than some of my reviews of some of my teammates, since my boss already had a pretty good idea of how we work together.
Then loop your manager in. I work for a marketing agency primarily doing consulting work, and operate semi-autonomously from my manager. For the clients and accounts I support, I am the face of my group. A client may not even know my manager's name, unless there's been cause for someone with a fancier title than mine to make an appearance. And account teams may have found their way to me directly rather than routing through my boss, so have no working relationship with him.
If I get a kudos via email, I either BCC him on my reply, or forward it to him as an fyi. If it's given verbally, I thank the person giving it, and let them know how much I'd appreciate if they could jot that down in writing and send it over. If it came through something like a Slack DM, I'd either screenshot it for something minor and pass that along or again express my appreciation and call out how much it'd mean if they could throw that into an email.
I've never had anyone balk at or refuse to do the above. If someone has taken the time to give you kudos for your work, they're usually appreciative enough with what you're doing that they are perfectly happy to put it in an email for you if prompted. And more often than not, the writeup that comes through talks you up far more than the informal shout out they originally made, as they're well aware of why you're asking for it.
1) You can pay for plenty of shit, but you can't pay for human feeling.
2) A tiny fraction of that money ends up in the pockets of people actually providing care - most of it ends up with pharma, device manufacturers, PBMs, and other middle-men. You can expect whatever great service you want for your money, but it doesn't work when that money isn't going to the people providing the service.
My wife does this regularly and it's always amazing to see people's faces drop at the first manager request, then shine when they realize what's going on :)
Sending recognition is usually a decision made in the moment. Asking permission makes a process out of it. Having a process reduces your motivation to send recognition.
Her five reasons are spot on. But I'd like to add that people should understand their work environments and the politics involved. It's easier with small to small-medium sized organizations where you know all or most of the managers and their quirks and know the politics at work.
My environment is small-medium. Part of what we're judged on is helping colleagues. The managers are all onboard with it. When a colleague from the Unix admin team went out of his way to help my team I didn't hesitate to send his manager a message in praise of the effort. Getting a colleague in trouble for taking time out of assigned work is not an issue.
There are various voting systems that work well, but the easiest is something like "Every month, list 3 of your co-workers who did something impressive."
This avoids the many problems with something like the stack-rank system that Microsoft was committed to, for too many years. In that system, workers were forced to list their co-workers, not just as "good", but also a certain percentage had to belong to the "bad" group, the lowest 30%. Most workers do not want to attack their fellow workers this way.
You can get all the information you need by simply letting your workers upvote each other. You should ration the upvotes so that they are meaningful. On a small team, perhaps people get 1 or 2 votes, in a big company, perhaps they got 5 or 6 votes. If you make the votes a scarce resource, you get better accuracy: people think carefully about who they should upvote.
There will be some workers who never get upvoted by anyone. These are bad workers. There will also be some workers who get very few votes, or who only get votes from "rings" they've formed with other workers, where they vote for each other. These are suspect workers.
In all cases you'll want to apply something like the Google PageRank algorithm to the upvotes. That is, an upvote from someone who is themself highly upvoted should matter more than an upvote from someone who rarely gets upvoted.
I would not ban people from the article's main idea "When your coworker does great work, tell their manager" however, keep in mind, if you are the manager or CTO or CEO, you need to ensure there is also a system in place that is more automatic than simply waiting for people to talk about their co-workers.
You'd get a team constantly making tools for each other and no sellable product.
It's almost a reflection of 'Golden Parachute CEO' behavior: There's an implicit benefit to making decisions that have 'good optics' at the moment even if it takes you down a road you'll regret.
Seen this a LOT with 'buy/build' decisions almost everywhere I've worked. The cost savings look great up front, but by the time you've added all your custom bits, you're hitting things like API limits (either in surface or billing) and having to shell out, or building so much boilerplate to get around the limits you may as well have built it yourself.
But hey, it saved X$ the first year, who cares if it costs more the next 5 to maintain?
But as I also mentioned, any 360 tool should be just one tool that a manager uses, it should not replace all other tools.
I'm curious what you thought of the original article and its idea "When your coworker does great work, tell their manager". Are you opposed to that? If you are not opposed to that, then why would you be opposed to any other system of feedback, especially those that are formalized and structured?
But also, the rule of 150 applies here. At a startup with less than 100 people, each worker often has an idea of everyone's strength, throughout the company. However, if you are at a big company, with thousands of employees in multiple locations, then it is often best to restrict upvoting to some subset of the company. For instance, a company with 1,000 workers might have 10 teams of 100 people each. At such a company, it might make sense to have the rule that you can only upvote people who are on your team. The assumption is that these would be the people you interact with and have a good idea about who is good and who is bad.
Having said all this, I'm not suggesting that this should be the only way that managers evaluate their workers, but having a formal, structured, regular process is important.
There are other techniques that a good manager should also follow. If you have time, you can listen to the interview I gave here:
http://simpleleadership.io/why-group-meetings-can-be-time-wa...
Too many managers waste too much time in big meetings, more time should be spent in one to one meetings.
About this:
"Who are you to know who is doing good work or not?"
I can't tell if you mean that as a criticism of my suggestion or whether you are attacking the original article for the idea "When your coworker does great work, tell their manager." Because, if you believe people can not evaluate their co-workers, then you must disagree with the above article.
I speak for myself, mostly unrelated to articles put on www. I don't have to agree or disagree by anyone else's metrics and dominating rhetorics. Not meant to disrespect, but am not fully aboard naive beliefs. Experience and learning from others will in time tell, and moderate good intentions.
The article includes that there are times when you can't evaluate your coworkers and don't realise that you can't, when it says: "giving someone the wrong “level” of compliment. For example, if they’re a very senior engineer and you say something like “PERSON did SIMPLE_ROUTINE_TASK really well!” — that doesn’t reflect well on them and feels condescending. This can happen if you don’t know the person’s position or don’t understand the expectations for their role.".
You might think you know their role and expectations of it, but they might disagree - and their manager might disagree. Your position seems to be "vote on people you know, once per time period", and the article's position seems to be "feedback on anyone who does good work, any time, with their permission"
Your system will lead to:
1. You know more about people you work closely with, than others.
2. From them, you will have opinions about who does good work.
3. When it comes to voting time, you are incentivised to put that aside and vote in a way that keeps you with people whose company you enjoy, not people who objectively contribute most to the company goals, as a manager would see it. Because you have a limited number of votes, and votes exist as a rating for promotions and firings.
4. Managers have no idea why some people were voted for, or whether the people voted on think it's a fair vote.
The article's system will lead to:
1. You see any piece of good work which catches your eye.
2. You approach the coworker and talk to them, when you might not otherwise have done so, ask permission and explain why you think it's worth feedback, building connections between employees.
3. Managers get smaller, more frequent, feedback with explanations and know that the coworker agrees with this judgement of their work. Managers know who sent the feedback and whether they trust your judgment.
4. While the people you feedback on are affected by it, it's nowhere near as direct as 1 vote -> your only influence on the result, so you can afford to be more generous and less self-interested.
Other differences between the article and your suggested approach: you are not limited to 3 votes when sending feedback, you can feedback on as many people as you like. If you send feedback as and when it happens, you're less affected by recency bias from the last few days before voting day. You aren't obligated to send any feedback, but you are obligated to vote for 3 people, even if you think you have only 1, or 5 good coworkers.
As far as telling people's managers about good work, that is helpful of course. But I feel like there's this misconception among non-managers that managers don't already know who's great and who's not. As a manager who pays any attention at all this is clear as a day most of the time.
When somebody helps me out, I say to their manager, "when you get a chance please tell them I'm grateful for their good work."
Was it their distinguished expertise that made it possible for them to help me? Was it a spirit of collegiality? From my perspective, I don't care when I thank them. They did me a favor, I'm happy, I'm grateful.
Give and Take is a book by Adam Grant on this part of the workplace. https://www.worldcat.org/title/give-and-take-the-revolutiona...
If I notice that someone has really killed it in something but has no recognition at all for it, I will also/instead point out to that person's manager, especially if it is a junior engineer
It's low friction and it works well. They hook it up to a Slack channel for a steady stream of positivity, and its read by senior execs and mentioned during reviews.
More companies should make this part of their company culture via tools that make it easy and common.
I genuinely believe that this attitude promotes positive environments. Great work always deserves to be recognized. Good article
Thanks to this article (which I didn't even read), I was inspired to write something heartfelt to my own manager about another person on my team. No system would have pried that from me. I just needed a subtle reminder.
Anyone who really buys into "team" will value someone who is actually looking out for their team.
They are usually semi-anonymous though and no one really noticed. I think that we should be careful of inculcating such a culture. It can support and enforce clique's at work. It also as a deliverable, leans fairly hard on your co-workers. Why should we build a system that essentially delivers pre-digested content for management?
tl;dr: "Overall: a lot of people (for very good reasons!) want to have control over the kind of feedback their manager hears about them." exactly!
It also could become a Vanity Metric, and this doesn't help anyone. [1]
That step is often missed. People are often resistant to providing direct feedback - yet that is also how the strongest bonds are made.
The more a manager acts as an intermediary, the less direct emotional (and consequently professional) relationships are.
The point of telling the manager is to help the coworker get their next raise or promotion, not for the manager to be the one to tell them.
"Hey is it ok if I tell your manager you're doing a great job?" Is a lot more indirect than "Hey, I think you're doing a great job" and pausing for a response and having a conversation about it.
1. Giving someone a compliment that’s not in line with their current goals.
Try to judge that yourself. But your coworker has no control over what others say; one of the risks in life, somewhere fairly low down in a list with many elements, is the risk that a coworker will compliment you for something that's not in line with your goals. Deal with it.
2. Giving someone the wrong “level” of compliment. For example, if they’re a very senior engineer and you say something like “PERSON did SIMPLE_ROUTINE_TASK really well!”
That will make you look silly, not them.
3. If your coworker was supposed to be focusing on a specific project, and you’re complimenting them for helping with something totally unrelated, their manager might think that they’re not focusing on their “real” work.
Make it one of your aims to have the sense to get that right.
4.Some people have terrible managers (for example, maybe the manager will feel threatened by your coworker excelling)
Make it one of your aims to have the sense to get that right.
5. Some people just don’t like being called out in that way, and are happy with the level of recognition they’re getting!
Bad luck; they don't control what others do.
The type of person you want and should be around.