Four States Are Sharing Driver's License Info to Help Find Out Who's a Citizen
npr.org
npr.org
There's a fair amount of resistance to government information gathering, especially by the federal government. There's a bigger question of records quality. There are a lot of citizens who have no records of their birth --- either it wasn't recorded, or the records were lost, or the details you would need to find the records aren't available. Anyone contemplating reconciling all those edge cases is going to simply give up.
The country really needs a government that has the balls to enforce the laws as they are written or change them to what they want to enforce. The idea that the effective law is predicated upon the whims of prosecutorial discretion is bullshit.
One could easily see a national identity system to be justified as part of the census. I'm sure there are other articles that could also be used to justify one.
The reluctance around a national identifier and system is purely policy, not lack of constitutional authority.
https://www.aclu.org/other/5-problems-national-id-cards
The NRA links to a few articles in opposition:
https://www.nraila.org/articles/20020515/we-don-t-need-no-st...
https://www.nraila.org/articles/20041222/do-we-need-a-nation...
https://www.nraila.org/articles/20020711/reviving-a-de-facto...
Here's an opinion piece Fox News ran in opposition:
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/5-reasons-why-america-should...
We shouldn't be wanting a stronger central government. A national ID system is a stronger central government.
The federal government's job is oversight. That should be the extent of their influence.
So yeah thank you for sharing that link. ACLU has the right idea.
I can't login to the social security website to get my statements, so, not very well in some cases. I locked myself out trying to prove my identity which basically amounts to providing information from your credit report.
To unlock the account, I'll have to visit a social security office and they'll apparently give me a one-time code. I haven't cared enough to go through the pain of doing this yet.
There's also the Real ID act passed by Bush in 2005 (and whatever implementation and changes have been made in the 15 years since) that did create a national ID card (standards for driver's license and identification) that all states but Oregon and Oklahoma are compliant with.
ACLU 5 reasons to not have national ID: https://www.aclu.org/other/5-problems-national-id-cards
Homeland Security Real ID: https://www.dhs.gov/real-id
Short timeline of US National ID (opinionated): https://www.endtime.com/articles-endtime-magazine/why-americ...
Neither of which was ever really suppose to be for ID
SSN is for me to get my old age money, and Drivers Lic is for me to prove I can safely operate a car...
Extending them from their original purpose has lead to all kinds of problems
> Neither of which was ever really suppose to be for ID
State IDs (including Drivers Licenses, which are State IDs conjoined with permission to drive certain classes of vehicles on public roads) absolutely are intended as ID, and the function of drivers licenses as drivers licenses presupposes them functioning first as ID, since it can’t establish that you have permission to drive if it can't establish that you are the person it refers to.
Granted the ID functions of the state Drivers licenses were done a little better than the ID functions of the SSN being used for Tax ID purposes then for other ID Purposes largely because the adding the ID functions to Drivers Licenses was done by the same entity issuing the drivers licenses unlike SSA which resisted efforts to have SSN be an ID number
That said original drivers licensees simply had a Name and the fact you passed the test, there was zero ID component to them, this was added on later.
Sure, the problem with your description is you are using “were never intended” for “were not originally intended”, which in the case of Driver’s Licenses is radically wrong; drivers licenses have been reengineered entirely around the need for a principal state-issued ID, expressly for the purpose of serving that purpose, which is why they are also the bases for non-driver IDs.
Also here in Canada, we too have separate ID for each province and territory, and separate health insurance ID too.
I think given the current political climate, where the far left is generally critical of the concept of citizenship altogether (see current proposals to allow non-citizen voting in federal elections, decriminalize illegal border crossings, etc.), the opposition of just that one political subculture would be enough to scuttle any attempt. Add on to that the concerns of lawful gun owners, ordinary people who do not want to be identified to the Federal government except for the purposes of taxes and social security, and the huge number of people who are basically okay with the status quo (myself included), and national ID looks like a non-starter.
The USA, UK, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand all lack national or citizen ID like what's common in Europe.
Australia is quite similar to the USA in the practical application of this. As far as I'm aware, all the different IDs the government gives you (TFN for tax, medicare for healthcare, etc.) are theoretically optional. In practise, you'd get taxed at the maximum withholding rate (but refunded the excess at the end of the financial year), miss out on cheap healthcare and other benefits, and wouldn't be allowed to drive. You are required to register to vote though, and voting is compulsory, but the information they keep is fairly minimal.
Generally the opposition is on the basis that the government should be trusted with as little information on its subjects as possible. Think of the worst thing that the government, or a third party that gains access, could do with the information they have on you, and then expect it to happen.
Obviously its a spectrum, most people would be opposed to a national database of everyone's DNA, and most people would agree that a government needs some amount of information in order to function effectively. So most people have an opinion somewhere in the centre.
There is also the tax question of whether your house is your primary residence, and when you sell it it's a question of whether you pay capital gains on the sale based on whether you in fact live there or not. This is one of those cases where technology meets policy.
If I need to attest to my ability to drive (which is quite a reasonable thing to require of people while they drive), all that is needed is photograph or fingerprint, expiration date, class of qualification and any restriction (such as glasses). None of the other info has anything to do with driving.
New York state declined, and is having Global Entry signups from that state rejected by DHS [1].
Edit: @crooked-v: Agreed, the administration found a straightforward way to the data other than via the census dept (it boggles the mind that people thought the federal government wouldn’t or couldn’t aggregate this data, remember when they withheld federal highway dollars to extort states into raising the drinking age?). Throttled by HN, can’t reply directly to your comment.
[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/06/us/politics/dhs-new-york-...
The purpose of the US Census has never been to determine citizenship. It's also fundamentally useless for that purpose, as not only is it entirely self-reported data, but it also cannot legally be accessed by other parts of the government until 72 years after that census is taken.
But the power stucture doesn't seem to care very much about law.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/retropolis/wp/2018/04/03...
I do have a driver’s license which I leave in my gf’s car in case I have to, you know, drive.
I never hassle anyone — they didn’t make the rule. I just say I don’t have one and invariably to date (except entering a federal court house) I’ve been fine.
This includes flying. It’ll be interesting to see if that “real ID” rubbish does finally get enforced. All the previous deadlines have been punted.
Also, I would assume that it may be possible to somehow locate SHW's car info and then find the actual car.
Anyway, these days ID theft is done wholesale, not one person at a time. I have other defenses against that. And someone who wanted my DL info could simply find it online.
Who cares about car locks: people will just break the glass and grab anything that looks worth taking.
You need to think of the risk. My house has a Medeco key system (slightly modified outside the Medeco license). It’s not to keep people from breaking in (you could just throw a brick through a window there too) — it’s to prevent key copying.
>My house has a $brand key system
My point was to question why are you broadcasting these things?
Because I think this obsession with ID is dangerous and I want to show that it’s pretty easy and comfortable not deal with it.
Because I think the obsession with security gets in the way of living your life and I give an example. Pick your threats and defense against them; things you don’t think are threats aren’t worth trying to “defend” against.
Because I am no less safe using these cases as examples that I would be, say, telling you which cipher and key length I use for my ssh keys.
https://www.bicyclelaw.com/do-cyclists-need-to-show-a-driver....
The Court also concluded that while McKay had verbally identified himself, the officer has the discretion whether to accept the verbal identification, and noted “Here, of course, defendant was not arrested merely because he failed to produce a license. He was arrested because he violated the Vehicle Code. At that point, the need to obtain reliable evidence of identification and ensure compliance with a promise to appear is equally great for a bicyclist as for a driver of a motorized vehicle. Although only the latter is obligated to have a license in his or her possession at all times while driving on the road (§ 12951, subd. (a)), both are required to produce satisfactory evidence of identity for examination when stopped for a violation of the law.” McKay, 625.