Estonia is launching a new Digital Nomad Visa for remote workers | Hacker News Reader

Estonia is launching a new Digital Nomad Visa for remote workers

e-resident.gov.ee

64 pointsMacSystem20 comments

The important parts people will probably look for:

- No right of citizenship or permanent residence in Estonia or EU - Get to live in Estonia for up to 1 year - Must make more than 3500 eur/mo gross from remotely earned income from sources mostly outside of Estonia

Pretty sure no work visa in the world grants the right of citizenship or permanent residence. I imagine for a lot of freelancers though demonstrating a sustained 3500 EUR/month income for at least 6 months prior to the application might be difficult.

Overall this is very encouraging though, and I hope more countries start to realize the net gain in attracting such people who will contribute to the economy by paying taxes and potentially starting their own companies down the line.

Well, plenty can lead to it eventually, usually offering some kind of pathway. Even the US provides pathways to permanent residence (and then citizenship) through employment.

But yeah, I agree. 3500/mo is ~4000 usd/mo or ~48k USD/yr. Lots of traveling freelancers probably won't be able to show a minimum of that sustained for 6 months. I'd bet the bar was set intentionally high though, because they're bound to spend a good bit of that directly into the local economy.

I wonder what countries will follow. I imagine there's got to be plenty of poorer/smaller countries thinking about it... A few people making $4k/mo adds little to a country like India or China but in a tiny country that could easily become a decent sized cash transfusion to the local economy.

> Well, plenty can lead to it eventually, usually offering some kind of pathway. Even the US provides pathways to permanent residence (and then citizenship) through employment.

The US has a lot of visas for longer term professional work, that do not allow you to obtain the right to permanent residency or citizenship, at least on paper (for example, one way to get in: these individuals however, are allowed to get married to a US citizen and can theoretically, at least, get in that way).

So, the US and Estonia are not much different, in this respect. But, in these situations, what it comes down to, in order to stay long term: formal in-person connections in the respective country.

I am hoping North Asian countries loosen up about visas.

Right now it's easy to be a digital nomad or retiree in Thailand. Malaysia has My Second Home: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_My_Second_Home

I expect things will get easier in North Asia as the effects of the aging population hit.

I would love to be able to move to a small town in Japan to live the Totoro life with fast Internet. And no virus problems.

Interesting footnote from the Wikipedia article on Malaysia My Second Home:

"On July 2, Minister of Tourism, Arts and Culture Nancy Shukri announced that the MM2H programme has been temporarily frozen until December 2020 for review and further improvement."

North Asia has too much problem by themselves already. They don’t need more foreigners money as they are already rich and would rather prevent Eternal September.

Not all South East Asian countries are welcoming to foreigners as well. I.e., Indonesia. They have too many digital nomads causing trouble and contributing nothing locally.

No skin in the game.

> contributing nothing locally

Someone earning $10 a day online from overseas sources is contributing far more than a local worker.

Could you elaborate how that might be the case? Is the argument that the $10 will somehow trickle down into the local economy?

How is it going somewhere else? If course it's being spent in the economy. Essentially it's an export of services.

For large amounts I'm sure some is saved but most workers whether local or foreign bringing in overseas dollars are contributing far more to overall improvement of the economy than someone working at a retail store earning the exact same amount while shuffling around domestic dollars.

I believe he is saying this is inflating the fiat money due to new money throw in the economy not being in sync with the local production, causing the Cantillon effect[1]

[1]: https://mises.org/library/money-inflation-and-business-cycle...

The problem is that this leads to a raised prices due to foreigners' purchase power, and this pushes locals away. This is very problematic politically as very few people end up profiting from tourists.

There’s so many thing wrong with this comment I don’t know where to start. How about we start with this. If you consider $10/day even a remotely decent salary then I don’t know what to say.

Malaysia My Second Home has been suspended.

How much taxes do I have to pay with this visa? As far as I know, Georgia (country) provides almost tax-free residency as long as the income is from foreign territories.

Either this is completely not for me, or i don't get it.

I contract from my US C corporation.

That corporation pays me, at my US address.

I pay taxes accordingly. In the US.

Is Estonia trying to horn in on those personal earnings, claiming I earned them while being a tourist in their country? (illegally? gasp) What if I don't pay myself while in EE and just pay myself later?

Are there services I might consume over and above a tourist visa as a remote worker, and those need recouped? Will this remote worker visa get me better access to those services?

I didn't understand their digital citizenship thing a decade ago either.

Befuddled. I love Estonia too, so I want to understand. :)

For most countries, visiting with a tourist visa means that it’s illegal to work while inside the country. The intent is to prevent you from entering the local job market, so most countries will turn a blind eye to tourists who don’t completely cut themselves off from their employer back home.

The actual laws haven’t been updated to officially allow that, though, so you’re operating in a legal grey area; especially if you have some non-vacation days in-country. This makes it unambiguously legal to take an extended vacation where you support yourself by continuing to work remotely.

I've worked remotely in several countries (Australia, UK, Canada, parts of the EU) in short stints (2-3 weeks to ~6 months), and for the most part the governments don't care much. As long as you're not conducting business related to that country -- like selling to locals or trying to get a local job -- no one will dig too hard. If they ask, you're just there to do an extended vacation or backpack.

Parent comment is right, though: it is sort of a legal gray area. If you plan on having a long-standing relationship with that country it's probably worth doing things legally, if possible.

US citizens only get up to 90 days at a time (out of a sliding 180 day window) in the Schengen zone (of which Estonia is a part) on the tourist allowance. If you are there for 90 days, you have to leave the whole Schengen zone for another 90 days before you can come back on another tourist allowance.

This offers a 1 year residence visa in Estonia, and makes it legal to work remotely while you are there.

Presumably they would also expect some income taxes while you are resident there (and working) during that year.

Always keen for new developments in government services and especially mobility for people, I hope this won't end up just one more class of visa with a little branding thrown on top. I think there's a massive opportunity right now for countries who want to attract groups of employees from the US tech scene especially that can cater to their needs and provide a safe operating environment for long term offsites without crazy new tax implications for the remote workers (although small island nations in the US time zones or even specific states in the US may be better positioned)

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