To add to that, by the time it’s ready for mass production, how important will piston engines be?
I suppose if will be gradual replacement by electrics but still it’s not like they would have lots of life in them.
I suppose if will be gradual replacement by electrics but still it’s not like they would have lots of life in them.
He says he gets this question a lot when he talks about conventional engine improvements, whether or not they are going to be irrelevant soon. In one video (which I frustratingly I can't find at the moment) he lists a series of use cases that are going to rely on conventional, maybe diesel, for a long time, especially heavy hauls across remote areas.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClqhvGmHcvWL9w3R48t9QXQ
EDIT: This is probably the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hatav_Rdnno&t=27s
Scroll down to the countries starting to ban fossil fuel vehicles. I think you’re fine for the next 10-15 years, after that I think it’s hazy whether fossil fuel vehicles will be permitted to be used at all if battery electrics take off. My bet is we reach a tipping point and an outright ban around 2035, if not earlier due to refinery unprofitability due to volume declines.
I do look forward to Porsche attempting a competitive EV though!
@JumpCrisscross: Throttled, can’t reply to your comment. “Progress happens slowly, and then all of a sudden.”
Zero chance of this happening in the U.S., U.K. or Germany. I imagine the Gulf, India and China will similarly retain sport driving cultures.
Mass-manufactured ICE vehicles are past their nadir. But mechanical engines will have a long life thereafter.
The minority may love the nostalgia, but sport racing cultures are primarily built on speed and ICE vehicles are already being left in the dust. Another 10 years and I would be surprised if there was a single ICE vehicle that could beat an electric.
Circuit racing (in particular endurance racing) is a long way from electrics being competitive (though LMP1 cars certainly use a hybrid powertrain to boost speeds). Le Mans cars currently cover over 5000 km in 24 hours. When Porsche stretched the Taycan to the limit they managed 3300 km in 24 hours. That's roughly a 1950s Le Mans pace (and that as when the track had fewer turns and longer straights).
Torque from an electric engine is insane. Tesla prototypes literally tore the transmissions apart. This is why a Tesla has the second fastest 0-60 time of 2.28 sec, and the low-end model (Model 3) still has a quick 3.0 sec time
Tesla is supposed to offer a "SpaceX package" with their Roadster that uses compressed air thrusters to overcome even that limit.
I guess we'll have to wait and see how it's implemented.
My understanding is that there are really only 2 times a hypercar is traction limited: accelerating from 0 and breaking. I suspect that those are going to be the only two times the system will kick in and have meaningful impact on the car's performance.
No-one wants a car that 'breaks' when they press the pedal.
The system can only engage when the car isn't traction limited unless it's somehow taking the tires out of the equation for handling (which I doubt they're doing)
But the thing is, it's not going to be meaningful in any way. You can already get a car that would break traction at almost every gear (there's a 1000HP Honda Odyssey minivan by Bisimoto that needs it's power output limited per gear otherwise it'd just spin in place when you put down)
If the tires don't get better, you're not really able to use power past a certain point.
Things that matter more than raw power are stuff like suspension and weight. Things EVs do not do well with and end up relying on computers to make up for.
This is going to sound like the typical Luddite screeching about how computers ruin anything, but as someone who drives cars as a hobby and has built up a track focused roadster, it really is not the same experience driving a car that needs computers working overtime pulling power and adjusting each tire's speed individually vs a less powerful car that's just well put together and easy to control for mere mortals like myself.
I think that really depends on the context.
For most races? You're probably right.
It'll be extremely difficult for electrics to beat gas cars at something like the 24 hours of Le Mans.
- Teslas are going to be built in such a way that every part runs for 1,000,000 miles
- “Refuelling” in the pit could be as quick as quick-releasing the battery sled, and popping in a charged one in it’s place
The FIA rules around 'refuelling' are incredibly strict and right now replacing batteries in the pit would be highly illegal. The rules can change of course, but with 400+ V and tons of mass that has to be slung around there is no way the FIA would take it lightly. When a couple extra seconds in the pit can make or break a race teams will always try to cut corners, so the FIA takes pit safety extremely seriously.
There is a reason formula-e used 2 cars rather than battery swapping when they didn't have the legs to complete a single race.
Definitely valid points here. I didn't mean to say that Tesla's million consumer miles meant that they could automatically endure Le Mans, but more that it's clear the technology scales very well. Maybe Porsche will come out of nowhere with an even more stable and more performant electric car that has a 6000mi range and can just hold the pedal down the whole time. Who knows, but my instinct says the eventual winner will definitely be electric.
Travelling around Europe, I think these were my biggest pet peeve, as an otherwise incredible and quaint city (such as Porto or Malaga) ends up being tainted with the disgusting smell of diesel fumes.
Petroleum only would be a huge improvement. Of course, electric only would even be better.
And then we have a few more decades while all the existing ICE cars age out and are actually replaced. Consider how many people today drive 10-20 year old cars. This goes doubly for high end collector cars like Porsches: Porsches from the 70s and 80s are still popular among enthusiasts, and these cars need to be repaired.
If electrical energy storage were the most economic one, I would expect at least one species to do that. Instead, they all store their energy in chemical storage mechanisms, i.e. fat, glycogen, ATP/ADP etc.
In order to solve the climate problems, it would be enough to synthesize gasoline from C02 in the athmosphere using renewable energy sources. A break through here, could immediately revert the whole trend towards electric vehicles. Of course this would not completely solve the pollution problem. Just CO2 pollution.