The AirPods Pro “Rattlegate”
annoying.technology
annoying.technology
Not just allergic to any hardware needing repair, Apple will go out of their way to make your life miserable. At the very best their repair is to replace most of your device for a hefty price, at worst they will flat out refuse to help even if you offer them to pay out of your pocket but also put their legal departments to work ensuring there is nobody else on the market to compete with the service they don't provide, stop shipments of parts that don't infringe on any trademarks or patents, and so on.
Between express shipping, in home techs, and parts, they spent way more than it would have cost to replace the unit. And, it never solved the problem. I have to underclock it before doing anything very CPU intensive.
This happens to my MBP every other month. With a classic Windows laptop you always have some sort of LEDs that indicate the state of power/charging when it is closed - with a MBP, nothing.
In 2008 I bought a new 15” MacBook Pro and two coverage policies: AppleCare for manufacture issues and Safeware for any accidents. One day in the first year or two the keyboard stopped working, I took it in they replaced it. Then about a week later it wouldn’t boot. I took it in and a tech at the Apple store (Emeryville Calif) insisted it must be some kind of liquid spill. Because there was “Schmutz” on the side of the motherboard. I guess their theory was I spilled colored liquid or soup or something on it (??). Now I was covered against accidents the problem is there was no accident. Apple refused to even examine the machine beyond glancing at the side of the motherboard which apparently could be done without disassembling the machine. Couldn’t file a claim against Safeware because that would be fraud. I get mad still just thinking about it. I bought a MacBook Pro 13 2010 like a chump.
Whether its laptop, desktop, phone, watch or tablet - there are mature "replacement" for Apple and they work many times even better!
Apple doesn't aim at the low end of the market. Users can think of this as another part of the cost of the device.
I have a Thinkpad that is 6 years old. I have spilled things on it twice, and fixed it both times myself (both times completely drenched, once with latte, once with mineral water). I would like it to die but it just refuses to give up. If I was MBP user the problem would have been solved for me a long time ago and I would be happy owner of succession of laptops.
Please. High DPI screens are old hat. And Apple continues to stubbornly refuse to put touch screens in their computers, because they know what's best for you.
The bottom line is that you can definitely deliver cargo of potatoes bags into your fries&cola stand in a shiny new Lamborghini and "wow" everyone around... you can also have a Nissan minvan to do so equally good or better.
Your accident was buying a computer from a company who didn't honor their warranty, or something that happened when you weren't watching.
Going through it with my HP zBook that is making a squeaking sound from the speaker. “I do hear a little noise but the speaker works fine. No problem here. -HP Support”
You’d think they could sacrifice some of that margin for a better customer experience when it comes to repair, otherwise what’s the point of buying an Apple device.
I'm never at fault for the issue though.
Anecdotally Dell and Lenovo will send technicians on-site to fix the issue. Easy when scheduled by appointment is table stakes; for stuff with iProduct pricing and positioning, they're not doing that great.
My last Mac was a Power Mac 6100/66 and at the time I couldn't have cared less about the Apple III, for instance.
I had an issue with my 2017 MBP where the speakers would conk out; I've had it fixed under warranty / recall, but because Apple sucks when it comes to repairability they had to replace the whole top cover, keyboard, touchpad, the works.
All of this in North Macedonia, with no Apple stores (but the fix was done at an authorized reseller). To be honest I was kind of amazed they did that and definitely left a lasting good impression of them.
https://support.apple.com/mac/repair/service
MacBook Pro Out of Warranty
16-inch MacBook Pro $199
15-inch MacBook Pro with Retina display $199
13-inch MacBook Pro with Retina display $199
15-inch MacBook Pro $129
13-inch MacBook Pro $129
17-inch MacBook Pro (Vintage) $179
MacBook Air Out of Warranty
13-inch MacBook Air $129
11-inch MacBook Air $129
MacBook Out of Warranty
12-inch MacBook $199I'm not in the US either.
Where I live Apple offers the same fixed-price battery replacement service but in local currency.
But if I go to a non-Apple store, but an "approved seller" of Apple products, they will quote a much higher price. I challenged them about this once, and they said it wouldn't be cheaper anywhere else, so I showed them the Apple page and they admitted that was much cheaper and I should go to the Apple store.
I told you about the Apple service in case you were being ripped off and would appreciate knowing about the Apple fixed price service, if you are in a country where they do that.
US $ prices were provided because you quoted $800, presumably US $. Other country prices are on the Apple website with a bit of searching. Look up battery service.
Refund method was asked for, which is rather dependent on country. If you're in a less-likely-for-HN country and asking how to get a refund it would make sense to say which country.
People are still recommending second hand 2015 rMBPs as the "last good" ones. It would be a pity if they can't have batteries replaced.
[1] https://www.macrumors.com/2017/05/20/apple-ends-2011-macbook... [2] https://support.apple.com/exchange_repair
Was a definite change in the local market when Apple Store arrived.
There was the NVIDIA GPU flap, the thermal paste issue, the screen bleed, and even an iPhone - 3 MacBook replacements, and an iPhone, for free, because Apple took responsibility for having designed and shipped a shitty product (really, all were flaws in Apple's supplier/manufacturing).
If, however, I try to get a freebie for having gotten an iPhone wet, well .. bets are off there.
And I think that's only fair really.
If a device I buy fails for what I consider to be a design or manufacturing mistake, I'll be wary of the company. If it happens again, I won't buy more of their stuff.
The fact that you need to schedule an appointment in the first place is horrible customer service. When I buy a product from NewEgg, if there's anything wrong with it, they immediately ship me a new one and a box to return the old one in, no questions asked. When my ThinkPad started having issues eight months after purchase, they sent me a prepaid return box, fixed it, and sent it back quickly. When I've had problems with MacBooks, I've had to schedule an appointment, drive to the Apple store, wait in line, explain my problem, let them ask a zillion irrelevant questions (the equivalent of 'did you try rebooting?'), and then come back in a few weeks to pick it up. They are hostile to customers when it comes to hardware issues, and they almost never admit that their products are faulty. Look at how long it took them to fix the TouchBar and keyboard failures a few years ago.
Apple will fix your product if it's under warranty, but they won't make it easy, and they won't pull a defective product and re-engineer it until the bad press overwhelms them. They're not great at this aspect of customer service.
Screen design are all about tradeoffs, but some people got it right years ago.
The 5X in particular also made a bunch of other decisions that helped the glass survive, like having the frame raised slightly past the glass, so that the frame would absorb the impact rather than the glass itself.
That still means if there is a hidden fault in the phone or they brick it by sending an update, they are still responsible in my understanding. But no longer if I give the device to family member and he/she is careless enough to sit on it.
When you buy shiny sleek phone with edge-to-edge screen you should understand this is not a phone to be dropped or sat on. It is not possible to fit so much screen, electronics and battery into such sleek enclosure and make it drop resistant. If you need drop resistant phone, there are phones that advertise the feature (see: https://www.techradar.com/best/best-rugged-smartphones)
In other words, dropping an iPhone is not an intended use of the phone.
The hell starts when your AppleCare ends (unless you're lucky to be covered by an repair extension)
Some people do care about sustainable and environmentally friendly practices though.
Re-use beats re-cycling every time: Next time Apple crows about their “Green” recycling program ask how many of those devices are put back into use.
My current laptop is six and a half years old (T440s bought on the day it became available) and is still very competent machine (after I hacked it to support LTE). I will probably replace it in a year or two and I can imagine this could be given away to somebody with need and it could be used productively for many years to come. With 4 cores, 12GB of RAM and 500GB SSD not many people will find it lacking as a work laptop (with built in graphics it was never meant for gaming or graphics work).
Now, I think this is way more green than any recycling program. The laptop is built to last and in perfect condition.
Old PC laptops can have Linux installed to extend their life. Old Macs get scrapped.
The item was brand new and still sealed.
The hitch put a huge dent in my phone, broke the accelerometer and a bunch of sensors, obvious case damage though it was still working (remarkably).
I walked into an Apple store and they replaced it on the spot, for free, despite it being out of warranty and obviously my fault.
Just got my MBP keyboard replaced yesterday for free too (admittedly it is a piece of crap keyboard :).
What I look at is the apparent policy of the company. Claiming shipment of refurbished touchscreens (https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/9kxzpy/apple-is-still-try...) or waiting for huge number of customers cry out loud for a long time to even acknowledge a problem is a policy problem.
(The problem was dirt “smudges” under the screen.
Just yesterday they replaced my wife’s watch by fedex within 48 hours. No hassles.
It sounds like this is more about how they apply policy per region outside of their stores.
This sounds more like the usual “Apple is too expensive and just cares about profits” trope.
Or send the pods to FL and then file the claim.
No iCloud for you, ever!
should be US non-mainlanders
I contacted them again a few weeks later and said I absolutely could not go to an Apple Store, as it would probably cost me $400-500 to do so. This time they figured out how to send a courier to pick it up from me and sent it back, repaired, within a few days.
It's possible there are many support staff who just don't know how to deal with these atypical situations.
It took me two hours to get a person on the phone, and we went through no less than 3 reset cycles. :|
Then the advisor told me I have to return it in person to an apple store (which is closed) or to an apple authorized repair store, and mentioned there will be a $29 fee, but fortunately for me, she was reading the prices wrong. Warranty returns/repairs should be free of cost. I asked for a supervisor, and was connected to someone who actually knew what was going on. He said they could mail the replacement and return packaging so I wouldn't have to come in. Second advisor was so helpful and knowledgeable. I'm just babying my left airpod before it goes.
I had the AppleCare and paid via Amex, the latter which gives me a longer warranty.
I am blown away by the quality of the pro, both positive and negative. How is it that we are all paying $280 and still have to replace them every year.
One good point is, Apple is sending replacements out without any questions asked other than 'is it making that sound?'. The replacement flow is really smooth too: Call or chat -> CreditCard got charged -> Left or right replacement is send via UPS -> You replace the specific side that isn't working correctly -> You pack the broken one in the bag that is included -> You return it for free at a UPS point. Obviously, this won't work anymore after a year of use because after that they are out of warranty. (At least in The Netherlands)
I somehow misunderstood this part. Do you have to pay for warranty replacement?
And also sucks as a warranty experience. Every other large company I've dealt with similarly (Amazon, Dish, Comcast, to name some) ship your replacement, and say that the return is due back to them within 30 days.
They don't charge (or even pre-auth) your card for you initiating a warranty replacement. I'm mind-blown (or maybe not, this is Apple) that people find this acceptable.
Buying a product online and replacing online requires some kind of wiretransfer. Creditcard or Payment card is the solution for all your woes. Don't fret.
> Buying a product online and replacing online requires some kind of wiretransfer.
Except it entirely doesn't: I've exchanged a faulty $3,000 camera on Amazon and they overnighted the replacement, and said that if I didn't return the faulty one within 30 days they'd charge me. They didn't pre-auth or hold funds.
Dish waits a month after I send back their DVR before even attempting to charge me for non return.
On warranty goods, when you are close to the richest company on the planet, "holding" customer funds on faulty warranty replacements is asinine and not at all "customer-centric".
Personally, I am unaffected. It makes this no less satisfactory.
Many large companies have tried to skirt around these consumer rights, like Steam and E.A who both rejected the notion that they even do business in Australia, all to prevent issuing refunds. It's absurd. Telling a consumer they have no right to a refund when they do is even against the law here, yet Apple do it all the time.
Eventually I got to a senior representitve and they openly stated to me while denying my claim "I don't know why you expect me to know the laws in Australia". They bloody well should, though. Australia's consumer rights watchdog even forced Apple to display a notice on their website to prevent people being misled by Apple.
That was always the deal; the non-serviceable li-on cells degrade significantly after a year of constant use.
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/airpods-pro-rattlegate....
I disagree. Good line spacing, comfortable page width (doesn't take up the full width of my monitor), clean & concise, no 'junk' surrounding the content. I'm not sure I see where you're coming from
But regardless, deliberately setting prose to be monospace is a poor styling choice, and it probably is a choice because that's usually to give the typewriter aesthetic.
At least Apple has great service. When the Apple store was open I could just walk over there and get the broken AirPod swapped in minutes. After lockdown I needed to call Apple support and get them to mail me one, which would take a few days to show up.
Interestingly enough, I had a very similar issue with my Sony WH-1000XM3. They would click and pop whenever I moved my head, touched them, or simply when a door or window would open or close and produce a small change in air pressure. They would click several times in a row, every time with less intensity, before stopping. Extremely annoying. Just like with the Airpods, it would only happen with ANC on. After a failed attempt to repair them in warranty, I just insisted on getting a new pair or my money back.
I am fairly confident that in both cases it was a hardware failure.
I'm not a fan because to me it's too similar to Chechnya. In fact, that's what I thought the parent poster was talking about until your comment was posted.
Additionally it sounds quite close to "Čechy" - what in English we call "Bohemia" - which refers only to the western half of the country (see [1]). So it reminds me a little bit of when people call the UK "England" - so as a Scot living in Moravia I sympathise a little with some locals who feel a bit irked by it :-)
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czech_Republic#/media/File:Cze...
Still kinda blows me away that this issue sounded so identical to my tinnitus that I literally couldn’t tell the difference.
For example, I never had an issue ever with my AirPods Pro since I bought them six months ago. Does that make me the outlier? Or is it just that 1% have issues, but they are very vocal about it (for understanable reasons)?
Something I learnt many years ago when I worked in sales was that a happy customer might tell one or two people but a pissed off one will tell everybody.
That said it doesn't negate the underlying issue if it's a real one.
Even a problem affecting only 0.01% has a sizeable number of affected customers if you ship 100 million devices. If you only ship 1 million, that same problem is much less likely to find public support. Apple already has good quality control (my opinion) but to reach the same level of public complains as other companies, they need to be several magnitudes better.
> How Widespread is This?
> It seems this is very widespread. Just a quick internet search turns up tons of people having the same issue. Sadly, most people think it is specific to them, that they've done something wrong, or they're waiting for a firmware update to see if that fixes it.
See https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/airpods-pro-rattlegate....
I’m sure there’s something going on, but it’s very hard to tell how widespread it is. Apple knows, but won’t tell world. If they start an out-of-warranty replacement program, that will be a hint.
Both time Apple replaced them quickly with no fuss.
Actually my revelation that the Pros are inferior came on the first day before I even popped them in my ear. You can tell just by holding the 1Gs and the Pros in your hand: note the clearance between the lid and body on the 1G is almost non-existent compared to the Pro - a sign of better build quality. When you pop open the lid on the Pros, you note they dont fit snugly in the case. You can easily wiggle them around making me wonder if the charging contact will be a problem later on.
But, i just had my own 'rattlegate' around the time of this post, and apple replaced the case under warranty for me with the bad pod, at least.
They are convenient and work well, however the fault rates are incredible. As soon as apple store opens back up I'll be replacing them for 5th time. At this point, I have given up and probably go back to SoundMagic in ears or something with noise cancelling that I can use while riding my motorbike.
PS: I didn't purchase apple care, and my friends/colleagues haven't had any issues.
The “fix” was to never use either NC or transparency. Just park it on the middle option.
I really dislike this product.
It’s a mess.
I have the new airpods but haven't had any issues (besides a single airpod sometimes not syncing with my phone at first). For what it's worth, I rarely ever use the mic.
EDIT: other sources are saying it is actually a hardware problem. But there's nothing actually "loose" that's physically rattling as far as people can tell (specially since noise cancellation off minimizes the problem)
They worked fine for a month or so...
Seems like it is a hardware failure and should be replaceable under warranty
I do agree these have by far been the most needy/buggy pair of wireless headphones I've owned in the past 5 years (Beats, Bose, Sony, Anker, B&O). Yes, I own a lot of headphones
With PowerBeats, I had to send in the headphones for warranty repair, losing any use (in the couple of cases they maybe, kind of kept working). For the replacement AirPod, at least Apple sent the replacement before I had to send it back to them.
I love my AirPods but this is so incredibly frustrating.
Pro tip: Use the Voice Memo app to determine which microphone is failing, and then go into the Bluetooth settings. You can make the microphone default to the side that isn't broken.
Apple wants to be normalize the purchase of a new pair of earbuds every year. It sounds like you're about to be on your 4th pair since 2017. Even just having to replace them twice seems excessive.
I'm on my second pair of corded over the ear headphones since 2008. My current ones still work, but one of the ear cushions is starting to fall apart. Instead of throwing all the electronics away, I can just get a new ear piece on eBay for $3
Previously I had a great pair of earbuds from MeeElectronics (now MEE Audio) that lasted a couple years. The sweet spot for me is to buy quality gear that satisfies my needs; not too cheap and not too expensive.
I fully expect to lose my Shures or my Lamy before they break, and I like it that way.
Edit: maybe I'm just really careful with my gear, but I always coil my cables nicely - over/under or a similar method, and I let them fold the same way each time. My cables last forever, including earbud cables.
I've only ever had one pair of headphones, which are on their third (fourth?) cable and needed muff replacement on one side.
Earbuds? The corded ones last me 2 to 6 months before the thin copper in the cabling work-hardens and breaks.
Airpods are semi-disposable as well, and much more expensive, but convenient and nice, while lasting quite a bit longer than corded earbuds. My first pair lasted 18 months, and the battery was fine, I just blew out the speakers. I value not being tethered to my phone.
Your mileage may vary, I'm kinda hard on my stuff.
OTOH, I've been able to keep a pair of wired earbuds going for another year with heat shrink tubing. Even though that isn't great, just that new lease on life I've been able to give them sounds like it's comparable to the Airpods MTBF.
The key is to spend a bit more and do your research, mine cost 40$ and will probably last a decade. To name them, the model is KZ ZSX - the sound quality is absolutely excellent too, and there are impulse response files to make them sound almost completely perfect.
There are also other more reputable brands such as Shure, but AFAIK none that will make headphones with metal faceplates for under 150$.
And when you open them, the wires are color-coated, and the connector is held in place using screws (!)
Insofar as AirPods Pro are “Pro” in that sense, I would imagine their target audience is used to it.
If you want ecological headphones, you could buy ones with no battery or a replaceable battery.
Hope they offer you it too!
Better hope you have a credit card, I guess.
My list of questions that begin with “no idea why Apple, one of the richest companies in the world...” is quite long.
Most recently posed here https://jborichevskiy.com/posts/spending-electronics/
I’d say the credit card/mailing method is also not Apple’s preferred means of exchange - it’s the backup for when the Apple Store is unavailable. At the store you hand them the AirPods when you get your replacement so there’s no need to provide a deposit.
I once had an expensive brand of computer mouse. After eight months the mouse failed. Later I bought another mouse from the same brand. The mouse failed after 14 months. I stopped buying from the brand. The same thing can happen to Apple, and they need to be careful about the quality of the products they sale when they charge premium prices.
Take a look at the cost estimates that most folks do on smartphones (Ex. https://www.techinsights.com/blog/samsung-galaxy-s10-teardow...). Apple isn't undercutting other companies by $300+.
Pretty sure that's on the low side. Plus, logistics cost of dealing with replacements and such adds far more than just absolute BOM cost.
I do wear the case close to my body, so it may be adhesive weakening caused by heat. That would explain why some people don’t have it at all and some see it happen 4 times in a row.
So I bought some new foam tips from www.complyfoam.com , and to my pleasant surprise, the rattling stopped.
Not sure if this is different from the vast number of other reports, but fyi.
Please, for the love of everything sane, stop using "-gate" to catch eyes with your clickbait captions and titles.
I'm surprised and disappointed that Apple, despite the proprietary W1 chip in the AirPods didn't build a custom protocol to work around this limitation.
1. Open Utilities -> Audio Midi Setup 2. In the left pane click + and add a new aggregate device 3. Add your internal mic to the aggregate device 4. Go to System Preferences -> Sound and select the aggregate device as your input
Unlike the 'raw' internal mic device this one should stay active when you disconnect / connect your headphones.
I've never found a better solution than this :( Kind of shocking that this is required - but it works.
I've heard theories that the outer mics can get clogged with ear wax over time, and I tried several different strategies for cleaning them. I even bought entirely new rubber caps, just in case that contributed. Nothing I did worked. Eventually I just gave up and bought another pair of the regular AirPods, which had always worked reliably (I gave away my first pair as a gift when I got the Pros).
It's honestly shameful that such an expensive product can be so problematic, but I got weary of being upset about it and just wanted to get on with my life.
Then I got quoted for a £75 deposit held until sent back the broken one back and no clarity from the representative on when the deposit would be repaid. So I just issued a replacement request with Amazon instead.
A couple days later I started to notice the right airpod is rattling.
I've used up my warranty now so would have to buy a new pair if I want this fixed.
And yeah your Airpods are cheap, $250 for a wireless noise cancelling pair of headphones that fit in a pocket is wonderfully cheap and Apple can only sustain that pricing because this fashionable products are almost a loss leader.
Accessories like this are generally where Apple has enjoyed huge margins.
[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_%22-gate%22_scandals...
I see nothing wrong about it. Apple spends billions on R&D yet still manages to push crap designs to the market (as evidenced by Louis Rossmann).
If naming something *-gate will make a dent in the public's "premium" image of Apple, I'm all for it. They sell the same crap as others, just overpriced, maybe with software that's better in some aspects.
Apple almost never owns up to their mistakes when it comes to defective product design.
But -gate has long since genericized into a suffix for scandal/coverup, it's not going back. Maybe someday it'll be replaced by something better – but that'd require some affirmative new coinage that signifies the intended meaning(s) even better.
But more importantly, your summary of Watergate is wonderful. It reminds me of John Mulaney's line about the NY Post: "It's like you're talking to someone who heard the news, and now they're trying to give you the gist."
I'll let the other pedantics on HN correct you, I'll just encourage you to go read up a bit on the topic so you get the bits in the right order.
You are correct.
Based on my experience and anecdotes presented here, it seems people having this problem are getting it replaced.
That said, what happens when the warranty ends?
The Airpods are possibly the single best-selling Apple SKU at the moment, so even a 10% fault rate will generate a lot of unhappy people.
Interesting to see how widespread this issue is.
I have good over-the-ear headphones for when I really need noise cancelling, and the rest of the time, the Airpods are perfect for me.
I bought mine a few week ago for $370. No issues so far, was supper happy that after 5 years I had finally found perfect earphones.
So at least two of us.
It's actually really helpful to see that it doesn't happen when Noise Control is Off, since I failed to notice that. That gives me a mode that works temporarily.
Had no real issue getting replacements(for both sides since I think it's starting on the right too) in the mail just now (since my local Apple stores are closed). Do need to provide a credit card hold / deposit until you return the old ones. Last time my replacement included fresh ear tips too so a small bonus for the trouble.
I've had this problem with companies, too.
I owned a Belkin router. If the microwave was on, WiFi devices "connected" to the router would lose the connection. The router's front panel LED would go from green to red.
When the microwave was done, sometimes the WiFi would recover … sometimes it wouldn't.
Support agreed that this was a problem and sent me a new router.
It, of course, had the same issue. I sort of understand the WiFi and the microwave interfering. I do not understand why it should persist even after the microwave is off.
Oh well. I later changed to Comcast's router. If you enter in WPA2-PSK key (not a password, an actual key) and you power-cycle the router (which happens automatically on occasion) the router will reset the key to the factor default password. But only the password/key changes, not the SSID or any other settings.
Support agreed that this was a problem and sent me a new router. (I… actually didn't want a new router, I just wanted to make them aware of the issue, but okay.)
And yeah, that one of course does the exact same thing because it's a software bug, not a hardware one, and I'm the only person on the planet choosing a key by random generation.
So now I feed the output from urandom through base64 to make it a password, which goes through whatever KDF (at least, I hope it's a KDF, but my gut doesn't trust WPA2 that much) WPA2 uses just to get random data into more random data. Or, IDK, perhaps I should just give up and declare WiFi patently insecure and just craft a nice riddle for the password.
It is sort of along the lines of something else I've noticed: there are a ton of companies, who, in one way or another, sell software, but have absolutely no public-facing bug tracker, and doom their support agents to just fielding the same bugs all day, which, practically speaking, they likely just /dev/null those reports, and in the same breath, their marketing department will shove the words "valued customer" down your eyeballs.
I used to have one at home (2011-2016), using nothing but a Mac Mini Server (which was mainly deducted to other tasks) to serve as the RADIUS authority and a perfectly normal Apple AirPort network.
Worked perfectly for years. The only reason I retired the system is that a home server and systems such as those are a bit of an overkill for somebody who lives alone, used the same three devices regularly, and basically just wanted to go home and forget about enterprise IT-type stuff.
Could it be the way it is being used causing it? Maybe dropping a lot? Or carrying it in a bag with other items, E.g. magnets?
I've also had mine since early November last year, and also use them many hours a day, mostly at my desk. Never dropped. Either left on desk in case or carried in a trouser pocket with nothing else except my iPhone.
They were absolutely perfect until about ~6 weeks ago, when the right bud started to make an awful tinny noise (which I thought was imperfect cancellation, and a software bug of some kind) when I coughed, which it had never done before.
Yesterday, I started getting the rattling sound when walking, right earbud only. Goes away for a couple of steps if you take it out and reseat it, then comes straight back. Rattles in time with footstep.
Since it's an impulse thing for me (force of cough, force of bouncing when walking), I'm guessing defective connection (defective solder joint?) that is misbehaving when stressed?
Would not change them out though. I’ve also have new Comply Foam ear foam on their way.
Meanwhile my regular Airpods are still working like a charm.
For example I got an Instant Pot once. It worked fine for a year. Then one day I was steaming some lentils and it just shut off. No error or anything, it just shut off without a sound and never turned back on.
And because my continued existence was basically contingent on that Instant Pot I began to starve.
So I bought another.
Two weeks later it was dead in exactly the same manner.
And I went back to starving.
Then I went back and read the most recent reviews on Amazon and realized that if I had paid attention I might have noticed that so many other people were having the same kind of problem and various other mechanical failures and leaving one-star reviews. But because the reviews section was swamped by five star reviews from years ago that got highly upvoted, I didn't notice. At least, that was my impression.
I think it might be hard to change the public's mind if you have a large group of people leaving reviews saying "it works great" in the first few months of the product being released, and you build up this false credibility. Then suddenly a defect occurs that only appears after a very long period, say a year or more, and people don't bother to update the five star review and figure it's time to buy a new pressure cooker anyways.
If there were some way of verifying this were the case it would certainly be frustrating.
Do all the people who wrote those five-star reviews years ago that haven't been edited still use the product and never had it break on them after a few years?
Eventually I got a Yedi and it's more convenient since the pressure valve never clogs like it did with the Instant Pot all the time and is automatic release. I get the impression that it's just better engineered and Instant Pot was just overhyped garbage. But still that's my impression because I've had it for only a month and can't judge if I'll be able to keep using it for another year yet. Maybe I just got lucky.
Look at how Steam does reviews. If a developer releases a patch several months after initial release that improves or breaks something, you have a better chance to know about it since they have a separate rating for only the most recent reviews. And sometimes the difference between the two is stark. I would say this is innovative. More sites with review systems really ought to follow suit.
And I really wish Amazon were like that.
Apple was very quick to send a replacement.
That they're unreliable is just the icing on this sandwich.
After 1 year of full day usage during the work week, they last 24 hours. Kinda surprised the Airpods battery dies so quick.
"People in working or impoverished economic classes are responsible for the life-threatening, exhaustive, violent work of removing their parts from the ground and assembling them. Meanwhile, people in the global upper class design and purchase AirPods."
I mean, yeah, I guess so?
But, I mean, I've had problems with most of the IEMs I've ever bought at one point or another. It's just that you don't get to the top of HN with a post about a pattern of Shure product defects.
One thing I've noticed is that the rattling noise goes away if I disable noise cancellation. It seems to be an issue with the NC microphones.
First time the issue started after 6 months of use. The second time was within a week of the original replacement. All good so far after the second replacement (about a month).
Fortunately Apple makes the replacement process easy.
Heh evenmy sony mx3s do this in the wind.
So is that the problem? Noise cancelling failure? Generally noise cancelling has problems with wind, air pods are the kind that probably see a lot of use outdoors.
Stopped by the Apple Store and they just replaced both he left and right one.
You do realize that the price of these is listed on their website. They're not $400.
They are $399 (sure, $1 less than $400) in Australia and New Zealand - maybe you're in a different country?
Link: https://www.apple.com/au/shop/product/MWP22ZA/A/airpods-pro
Screenshot: https://i.imgur.com/lfyAVod.jpg
> "Dollar (symbol: $) is the name of more than 20 currencies, including those of Australia, Brunei, Canada, Hong Kong, Jamaica, Liberia, Namibia, New Zealand, Singapore, Taiwan and the United States." - Wikipedia
When you talk about the price of pacemakers, penicillin or Wifi do you expect everyone to talk about them in AUD just because they were invented there?
Just because you (presumably) live the USA doesn’t mean the rest of the internet does.
"I made 20 million dollars last year" will usually be interpreted like you are rich, not that you had a decent salary of 20 million Liberian dollars.
If you don't care about sound quality, isolation, noise cancelation, mic quality, or using it with a non-apple device of any kind, sure. In other words, if you primarily care about form and only peripherally about function.
Edit: for reference, rtings gave them a 6.4 https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/apple/airpods-1-tr...
Unless you use the word perfect to mean something other than "having all the required or desirable elements, qualities, or characteristics".
Almost nobody wants to do this. It's a vanishingly minor requirement. You end up with a 'Homer Car' forcing all these wacky features in.
I'd actively prefer a product that's simpler, without features like this.
Also HN: Apple knows best, don't adjust your radio. If you think the audio could be better, you're the problem.
What a horrifyingly boring world we are building in the name of "simplicity"
> if you primarily care about form and only peripherally about function
Well yeah the form was the revolutionary bit about the AirPods. I'm sure I could get a longer list of fancy functionality squeezed into an ugly pair of baubles if I didn't care about form, but what I want is something tiny and simple for daily use. I think that's what most people want outside the tech bubble.
Yet again Apple showing that a genuinely well-formed product is better than something that looks better technically on paper from the list of functionality.
Creating a great product isn't about functionality Top Trumps as you think it is.
Never need to worry about charging them, soft replacable rubber cups fit into my asymmetrically-sized earholes, they're always there waiting in my bag on the rare occasion I want to use them, I am gonna be so sad when my 6s breaks and I have to replace it with either an Android phone or an iPhone with no audio jack, maybe I'll just get one of those lightning⟷audio adaptors and keep it on the earbuds forever.
I still do not see how the Airpods are an improvement in any way.
Airpods (not pro) are fantastic for what they are. They last for hours, charge in minutes, pair reliably with my iphone 11 and sound very ok. Not great, but not bad. Ok. Perfect for podcasts, audiobooks, lectures, and calls I have to take throughout the day.
The famous photography advice "the best camera in the world is the one you have on you when you need to take a picture" definitely applies. It lets me listen to spoken word and a little music very comfortability throughout the day, and I have big cans at home for everything else.
Source: owns a cheapass Soundpeat.
I had my left one replaced and then the right one. My wife's hasn't failed yet...
Are we forgetting the price tag, the limited use time, the fact that they add 3 disconnected parts to your phone/headphones setup, or the fact that they were released along with the removal of a headphone jack, preventing users from opting out?
Mine have lasted nearly three years, the first time I’ve ever had earphones last over 6 months without breaking.
This is a pro in my experience. I think they were intentionally designed so that they earpieces would only ever be in 2 places: in your ear or in the case.
There is a difference between peaceful protestors and people who engaged in looting. Don't conflate the two for the sake of a snarky comment.
The same goes for Apple support: you won't read online complaints from people who got their laptop immediately replaced or who were sent a new keyboard without question.
You will read the bad experiences where potential factors such as own fault or shitty behavior are not mentioned, further skewing the picture.
Apple can have very shitty service - no doubt - but what really is the overall experience of support when Apple ships many millions of hardware devices every year?
You insinuate that people are too stupid or too Stockholmy to apply consequences after continuous bad experiences and also that Apple just doesn't give a shit about customers which is absurd.
Absolutely not.
I don't insinuate anything, I'm as straightforward as it can be: There's a very specific type of relationship between Apple, their users and their non-users that's very interesting from the point of view of behavioral economics, psychology and cultural studies. I'm not sure every side is at win there, to put it mildly.
I'd also like to read any studies on this topic, if they exist.
Any kind of headphones that are $150 and over are expected to work PERFECTLY. It's a fucking high end product, there is no company in the world that would survive having it returned 4 or 5 times without being blasted all over the internet. Except for apple and its mind controlled apologists...
...and Apple is replacing them for free.
See top comment on this thread:
> Wow. I've had this same problem for months. I spent over an hour on the phone with Support just trying to describe the problem, until they came to the conclusion that there was absolutely no way to send me new ones or to have me send them my broken ones...because I live in Puerto Rico. The week prior, Apple had sent me a new cable for my phone in 2 days flat, yet when I had a problem, there was nothing they could do about it.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23826526
Or this one:
> A couple days later I started to notice the right airpod is rattling. I've used up my warranty now so would have to buy a new pair if I want this fixed.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23830886
-----------------------------
edit: instantly double downvonted without any replies for demonstrating anecdotes that shine a bad light on Apple. Stockholm Syndrome exhibit A. This is why people take any Apple user input with a grain of salt. They tend to try to shrug problems under the carpet as if these facts would cause them physical pain.
Not your analogy, but it's a terrible one. If 10 customers buy a product, and 1 has an issue, and that 1 chooses to repeatedly buy and also have repeated issues, that 1 person may have Stockholm syndrome (I mean it's still a childish argument, but sure, why not?). I fail to see why the other 9 would. I'm personally in the 9. I've had phones replaced easy peasy. I've had them replace a keyboard without a receipt. I could have found the thing in an alley for all they know.
Are there problems with the AirPod Pros? Yeah, probably. I don't have them, but I've had my share of issues with their other products. "Keyboard gate", etc.
As for the price tags, their products clearly have enough of an design or feature edge somewhere that people are willing to pay. Some people either don't have that money, or aren't willing to pay. That's it. Otherwise, we'd all be driving cheap econoboxes, because they all get the driving task down pretty well.
The reality is sometimes products break or have other flaws, regardless of how much they cost (I don’t think $150 is that high-end for headphones either). Nobody wants that to happen, but when it does, it’s good to know the manufacturer will do something about it.
Also, it’s not clear right now how widespread this issue is. This might be a fringe issue or it might not. I don’t know that and neither do you. (I do know my APP don’t have this issue. I use them heavily and not gently, so I know not everyone gets this issue easily.)
They're not, they're disposable earbuds. Even if they work perfectly they need replacing every 2 years for battery capacity.
Not saying I agree with it, but this is what they are and people are more than happy to pay for it.
The high end ones are always breaking down and are extremely expensive to repair.
Same with anything cutting edge. It's new tech, it's not durable tech.
Sure, always blame the victim.
I have had nothing but bad experience with Apple with MBPs battery swelling twice in few years, bad pixel on screen, dead SSD (again twice in few years). And I had to pay ridiculous money for it the second time. Surely it wasn't Apple's fault, right!
[1] https://www.model3club.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/3.jpg
[2] https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/attachments/rainingsmall-gif...
[3] https://preview.redd.it/6q60x2jzmv551.jpg?width=960&crop=sma...
[4] https://twitter.com/AlperOSavas/status/1180457123685253120
[5] https://twitter.com/Arronwu23/status/1116691772300599296
[6] https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/bc80gv/model_3...
I watched a school of fish the other day, how they just all swim together and suddenly thought "Apple Users". I probably do the same thing and someone could say "Apple Detractors".
Is this new or am I only just now paying attention?
https://9to5mac.com/2019/04/24/apple-customer-support-rankin...
Do you remember iPad naming memes and jokes? Now it's one of the most iconic names in the world. Remember iPhone's antenna issues? People still claim it has always been phone with best cellular connection. Bendy phones? iPhone build quality is unmatched!
Cyberpunk corporate culture is here just without all of the neon aesthetics so no one has noticed.
What do you use? I bet I could dig up a bunch of problems and complaints about your championed company with a quick search even if I have never heard of them, and twist that into an “Stockholm Syndrome” for you too.
Microsoft? Google? Samsung? Digging up negative stories about them would be too easy, without even leaving HN.
Your comment shows the absurd level of Tall Poppy Syndrome that Apple has to face because of the position they’re in, which they got to in the first place by winning literally billions of users.
My point is while Apple won millions of users (I very much doubt it's billions) it's a result of a much more elaborate strategy than just making and selling superior product, which is a claim I hear often. I question the implications of that.
But you're perfectly fine with the kind of reasoning that pooh poohs the preferences of billions of people as "Stockholm syndrome", oh please.
> I very much doubt it's billions
iOS alone has a billion users, and Apple has been around since 1976.
I never said all the users have it, I said the level is high. This comes from observations and experience, of course, not research, so I can't generalise to all users and I didn't.
> iOS alone has a billion users, and Apple has been around since 1976.
Billion of devices ≠ billion of users. C'mon, do you really think each 8th person in the world has some Apple device? Also, you said billionS, that's laughable.
Source?
While you look that up, remember that devices like Macs and iPads are often actually shared by multiple users.
Claiming your observations and experience override statistics and many other people's preferences is what's laughable.
More numbers: Apple's market share for smartphones in China is estimated at 9%, so again, even if the market was all the population, it's still just 125m.
Judging from your submissions and posts you're heavily invested in Apple's ecosystem. It's easy to be biased in this situation and I don't blame you for that. Hope you're happy with their products and they truly make your life easier.
Billions, billion, millions, million, thousands, thousand, hundreds or even just a hundred:
You came in snarling with the accusation that many people whom you don't even know, have Stockholm Syndrome, which really just hints at more of a problem on your side.
>You came in snarling with the accusation
I just shared an observation. I may be wrong, and you have all the rights to disagree. You can't accuse a person with things done unknowingly and/or unwillingly, so no accusations here.
Watergate was a historic breach of trust that to me seems to have marked an inflection point in the decay of trust in American society.
This person had some issues with a new technology product which were ultimately resolved.
I know it’s common within certain subcultures to have this kind of lingo and hyperbole. But you end up sounding really whiny and entitled to my ears.
Many of these consumer electronics don't actually save you time, but instead save you impulse control. There's nothing wrong with traditional headphones, except you have to think about putting them on, and wrapping up their cord when you take them off. This doesn't actually take time to do, mind you, but instead requires the consumer to exercise some impulse control, or to ignore some inconvenience.
We're a long way away from something like the invention of the washing machine, which saved countless women hundreds of hours a year. Prior to a washing machine, you'd be stuck next to the laundry for the duration of the laundry. Laboring the entire time. The washing machine automated a monotonous task, and allowed women to do nearly anything else while the laundry was going. It was an enormous game changer.
Compare that to something like Google Home. What does it do? It prevents you from having to type in your phone? It's not as if the voice prompt takes a meaningfully different time than typing a query into a phone. And for that matter, it's not as if walking over to a traditional computer and typing in your query takes a significantly greater time than either alternative. No, what the Google Home does is prevent you from having to think about switching your task, and that's about it.
Are AirPods any different? Corded headphones don't prevent you from doing anything, they just require a small amount more impulse control: to wrap them carefully every time. And in exchange, you get a product that is: expensive, has a short shelf live (due to using a battery), and apparently sometimes has reliability issues.
But please know, I don't mean this argumentatively. It's just a difference of perspective I suppose.
I kinda feel like overly nitpicking these types of extremely advanced pieces of technology risks discouraging Apple and other companies from experimenting on cool new technology.
Can't we just all agree that the Airpods Pro give an awesome experience to 95% of people, and be happy with how great that is? :)
Seems like at least 5% of people would disagree with you.
And this is coming from someone who absolutely loves both my AirPods and AirPods Pro and doesn't have the issue described. I'd be pissed if I had to swap out headsets every 2-3 months.
I don't think we have to worry about hurting Apple's feelings.