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Comment by raesene9 | Hacker News Reader

I've never seen whisky (Johnnie Walker or others) in a plastic bottle...

If the Whisky industry wants to cut down on waste, there's a really easy way to do it. Stop putting whisky into fancy cardboard/metal boxes (or at least offer a version of all your lines without the box).

Other spirits do just fine without the fancy box, it's just pure waste (apart from perhaps whisky bought for gifts)

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Direct sunlight quickly (in a matter of a few weeks) affects both the color and taste of whisky. The outer packaging serves a functional role.

Then an opaque paper bottle would presumably also work well for this?

I think it is a problem that was already solved by TetraPack for a long time

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetra_Pak

it's really useful to see the content of a liquor bottle

I'll bite: why?

When would it really be in direct sunlight though? I'd imagine sitting on a liquor store shelf wouldn't qualify unless it was in the window or something.

It's primarily the ultraviolet in sunlight that is damaging. Stores use flourescent lighting in this part of the world, which still emits a fair amount of UV, damaging the product sitting on a shelf. This is why beer in green bottles often picks up a "skunky" flavor; green glass doesn't block UV as well as brown and the UV reacts with the hop flavinoid molecules, changing the flavor.

Huh, I always figured that's just how Heineken tasted!

Many beers traditionally packaged in clear or green bottles (like Heineken and Mexican lagers) got "skunked" during shipment and consumers (especially in export markets) came to recognize that as the taste of the beer. Today, they get shipped to store more quickly and without much light exposure... so they're deliberately skunked by the brewer to maintain the taste.

I'm going to call [citation needed] on the deliberate skunking...

Interesting!

Now I wonder if Inselbrauerei's all-around labelling [0] is more than just a shelf recognizability gimmick.

[0] https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d2/a7/6b/d2a76bc591bd8d13697f...

Several years ago, Sam Adams had a TV ad about their high sided cardboard six pack boxes, and how they protected the beer from light. I expect the all-around labelling would work even better.

I thought green did block damaging light effects, which is why (eg) olive oil often ships in green glass.

Edit: “it depends”, but generally green glass seems to be a distant 3rd in performance.

Amber > cobalt > green

Ref: https://www.thecarycompany.com/about/blog/amber-glass-vs-cob...

I think visible blue light is a large contributor to skunking

I'd say that either a) keeping it out of direct sunlight (e.g. in a warehouse or a shop) or b) making the bottles more opaque, would be a more ecologically friendly option? Apart from display bottles, it doesn't seem like that likely that during the sales process, it would need to be outside for extended periods of time.

The heavy embossed metal or cardboard used doesn't seem to me, to come from that requirement, more a marketing thing to signal a "premium" product (the more expensive the whisky, often the more elaborate the packaging)

Glass is problematic for shipping, storage, and service. Cardboard would probably be somewhat welcome at bars and restaurants. Maybe they could have glass bottles that costs for egoists that treat it like a collectible. I am a whisk(e)y drinker and collector.

Glass is what they already ship, store and service whisky in... I'd be interested to see if they could get cardboard working without it affecting the taste.

Like I mentioned, I drink and buy whiskey so I know it is sold in glass. Maybe I was unclear, but I think glass is less than ideal for the reasons I mentioned. Specifically here we are talking Johnnie Walker Black per the article's picture. This is a lower end high volume offering, though it's just fine. But I am convinced that Diageo, which has a market cap of over $300B USD, had done some due diligence on the matter.

Distillers have little to no control over what stores their product is sold in and how those stores are setup (for these purposes, "direct sunlight" includes coming through a window, so it's more likely than you'd think).

If a consumer buys a bottle of whisky and it's oxidized, they're not going to think "that store was poor", their first reaction will be "this whisky is poor" and to be turned off the brand. Packaging isn't worth that risk to the brand.

Opaque bottles have their own complications - no type of glass will be sufficient and other materials (aluminum, etc.) have different costs/impact on flavor/affect of alcohol on the container over time. I'm sure they're putting in plenty of research and I'm curious to see how this turns out.

Cardboard is a surprising choice to me. I was at Microsoft when they first started switching from styrofoam/plastic to compostable serving ware, and while they eventually fixed the problem of spoons melting in your soup, they never did find a compostable cup that wouldn't start dissolving if you put liquor in it (you could drink it fast, but it would be dripping within half an hour and a major problem if left for more than an hour)

Ah, just how often was drinking liquor out of a compostable cup a problem for you at Microsoft? I worked there too and the strongest thing I ever had was Mtn. Dew....

I kept glassware in my office, but it came up at anniversary celebrations, teammate departures, and too many late nights during Win8 M3.

Oh, you worked in Windows. I get it now ;)

Nothing a thin layer of foil can’t solve. Metal is better at blocking UV light than any glass.

That's sort of what the outer packaging is.

Other materials can fulfill this requirement even better than brown glass can. However, marketing plays a pivotal role in the commercial success of alcoholic beverages, and packaging is a very important part of this.

Olive oil is also affected by light. Quality olive oil is packaged in opaque ceramic. Dark paper would serve the same purpose.

I would bet it's their mini-bottles and pints - those are what are commonly plastic rather than glass.

> I've never seen whisky (Johnnie Walker or others) in a plastic bottle...

It's pretty common for smaller bottles of inexpensive whiskey, at least here in the US; I see (and buy) the likes of Jack Daniels and Jim Beam in plastic bottles all the time (e.g. for parties, since I know we'll have no trouble going through the whole bottle in a night).

> I've never seen whisky (Johnnie Walker or others) in a plastic bottle...

Lots of airline liquor bottles are plastic.

IIRC, that's to prevent terrorists from weaponizing the glass bottles.

That would be awfully silly since you can simply carry on your own glass bottle and/or buy one in the terminal, although I suppose that wouldn't be the first time there were some silly rules put into place with allegedly similar motivation.

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