> STUDENTS LINKED ARMS BUT WERE MOWN DOWN INCLUDING SOLDIERS. APCS THEN RAN OVER BODIES TIME AND TIME AGAIN TO MAKE QUOTE PIE UNQUOTE AND REMAINS COLLECTED BY BULLDOZER. REMAINS INCINERATED AND THEN HOSED DOWN DRAINS.
Say what you will about the US, we still haven’t run citizens over with tanks and hosed them down drains.
Source: https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/UK_cable_on_Tiananmen_Squar...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tank_Man
The main wikipedia article on Tianenmen square discusses other estimates of the number of deaths (all others being much lower):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests
There are a number of people involved in the protests who have left China and provided accounts. At least one person wrote a book, although there is no English translation as far as I know.
The British government has itself killed quite a lot of civilians and is hardly a reliable source considering their history with China.
I disagree, that photo could’ve easily been taken before the killing started. The fact that tank man’s identity or whereabouts are unknown provides evidence that he was probably killed in the demonstrations.
> The British government has itself killed quite a lot of civilians and is hardly a reliable source considering their history with China.
This is completely fallacious. The fact that Britain has killed civilians has no bearing on their truth-telling here. You’re essentially arguing that no country is capable of telling the truth because it’s not realistic to name a country that hasn’t killed civilians at some point, no?
I do not think in general governments are a good source of facts and even in the best circumstances most seem incapable of telling the truth. The British government reporting on China is nowhere near the best circumstances. The account you quoted now serves as propaganda for people who want to believe that China is uniquely monstrous. A number of people have quoted it on HN and it is at odds with eyewitness accounts.
Even the Chinese government admits it killed hundreds of people during the protest. Possibly the number is over 1k, but 10k deaths is not credible nor is the vivid account.
Yes, the US has done plenty of things that are wrong. We talk about them frequently, including here on HN. But this conversation is about China oppressing the people of Hong Kong. Do you mind letting us discuss that, without distracting us with "But the US!!!!!" all over the place?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Park_(Berkeley)
Shooting workers that unionized was also common:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lattimer_massacre
uhh... what? Have you checked the "legal action" section?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings#Legal_act...
or did you expect that the guards' heads be put on a pike?
Oh, and don't forget that we can talk about what happened freely. Try doing that in China.
But anyone with a gun can pull the trigger. It takes an enormous amount of coordination to uniformly run over people with tanks, burn their bodies, and flush them down drains.
The incidents you’ve linked are undoubtedly dark chapters, but they are not comparable to what we’ve seen in China.
Contrast that with Kent State, Jackson State, and other places where troops were deployed and the situation escalated.
The ultimate difference here is that it’s perfectly legal and acceptable for us to talk about what happened at Kent state. The events are not in dispute.
China, on the other hand, jails people for talking about Tiananmen Square. To acknowledge the existence of such heinous acts is itself a crime in that country.
The fact that we can sit here and argue about this without fear of going to prison is itself proof that these situations, and countries, are incomparable.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_...
Contrast this with Tiananmen Square: Beijing does everything it can to prevent its citizens knowing about it, and is all to happy to cultivate a reputation that they would gladly do it again today.
Really good example. Thank you.