Pope pulls speech on Hong Kong freedom, raising questions over Beijing pressure
hk.appledaily.com
hk.appledaily.com
On human terms it makes no sense to continue church operations in china just like some companies pulling out of china, but the church has not run on those terms.
For centuries the church and her members in China struggled to maintain their identity in the face of discrimination, and there has been progress even though small. I don't think it makes sense to let go of a winning strategy albeit a slow one given the conditions.
I guess he did not want to upset them after this major concession.
e.g. consider the act of paying a bribe.
Scenario 1: You pay the bribe and make 10x the amount due to faster govt. processing.
Scenario 2: You pay the bribe to save someones life who will die otherwise.
Paying the bribe in Scenario 1 is immoral and paying in Scenario 2 is moral.
Dealing with China is more akin to Scenario 2.
The Catholic church is the oldest institution in the world, it knows it can wait.
“ In 2010, the Vatican had an income of $326 million and ran a $13 million budget surplus, but in 2011 the Vatican ran a $19 million deficit. And while some of that money obviously went to maintaining church buildings and art, much of it also went to charitable causes.
Recent re-evaluations of Vatican assets show that the Vatican has approximately $1 billion in total assets. For comparison, Harvard University’s endowment is over $30 billion. So, relatively speaking, the Catholic Church is not really wealthy, and no one blames museums for maintaining their art work and structures. “
It's a semantic difference that has no real meaning. Every Catholic church organisation answers to the Vatican. Treating them separately is like treating Apple, Apple UK, and Apple Ireland separately because no, really, they are different legal entities honest.
No, it doesn't.
Catholic institutions do, perhaps, but the relationship between other Catholic institutions and the Holy See is complicated, both legally and by tradition and more practical concerns.
> I can believe the Vatican itself, as in the tiny city state in Italy, is worth $1bn
I think the reference here to the Vatican is to Holy See, of which the State of Vatican City is a subordinate component.
> but the Catholic Church owns hundreds of billions of dollars worth of assets
The Catholic Church is not, as such, a juridical entity and thus, as such, does not have the capacity to own anything.
Perhaps they just felt that making such public comments would achieve nothing apart from undoing that work.
The Catholic Church has been around for almost 2,000 years. I'm sure they know how to play a long game.
If that were the case, the Vatican should have been among the first to switch recognition from the Republic of China (Taiwan) to the PRC, but instead, it is the only remaining European state that still maintains full diplomatic relations with Taiwan.[1]
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_Taiwan#Eu...
They probably picked them after their last relationship, which was about touting the US during the cold war, and working with the far-right to stir hysteria in Italy. How the tides turn...
https://www.amazon.com/dp/1633884783/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?...
What about Jesus? lol
What is left of the catholic church if you reject the pope?
Protestants
> Protestants
I think you mean “Eastern Orthodox”, as they both were rejecting the primacy (at least, in the terms Catholics define it) of the Pope long before Protestants existed and remain closer to the Roman Catholics on most points other than the primacy of the Pope than Protestants, who reject a lot more about Catholicism than the role of the Pope.
On religion, just the opposite if you go by Buddhism numbers, +200m since cultural revolution. I've read that China wants to promote religion with Chinese characteristics as a foreign policy tool. Countries along the Belt & Road in China's sphere of influence are religious - being able to send out Chinese representatives with shared religious background might be beneficial. Maybe Chinese missionaries could even disseminate religion with Chinese characteristics. On top of internal stability, behind the elevated repression happening in XJ and Tibet are efforts to sinicize the major religions in terms of physical design (symbolism, architecture) and political structure to harmonize with Chinese society. Maybe there's a generalized "socialist" package for authoritarian governments to export. Though I find this thesis suspect, it invites sectarianism when money is already the universal religion, one China manipulates effectively.
They also have a lot of shelters for homeless and others in need of help in my country without any missionary ambitions (today at least, historically it was for missionary purposes). They help out where the state fails and it fails a lot.
Still the institution of the roman catholic church and christians are not synonymous to me. And any form of criticism is certainly directed at the churches power structures, not at their priests. I think the current pope is quite nice, but I disagree with him here.
Edit: ya know, this is probably an excellent idea for the church. Every extra Chinese Catholic is someone who will likely ultimately accept the Pope’s authority over the CCP’s, regardless of if there are CCP friendly bishops. Get a big enough beachhead amongst poor Chinese, and bide their time, and they’re probably on to something.
Nah probably more the year 16-26 AD. ;)
Already done since 70 years ago.
* Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Patriotic_Catholic_Ass...
> The Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association, abbreviated CPA, CPCA or CCPA, is an organization established in 1957 by the People's Republic of China's Religious Affairs Bureau to supervise mainland China's Catholics. It is the only organizational body of Catholics in China officially recognized by the government of the People's Republic of China, but is not recognized by the Vatican.
> In his encyclical Ad Apostolorum principis of 29 July 1958, Pope Pius XII deplored the attitude and activities of the Association and declared the bishops who participated in consecrating new bishops selected by the Association to be excommunicated. Pope Benedict XVI referred to the agents of the Association as people who, though not ordained priests and sometimes not baptized, "control and take decisions concerning important ecclesial questions, including the appointment of bishops." The organization is overseen by the United Front Work Department of the Communist Party of China following the State Administration for Religious Affairs' absorption into the United Front Work Department in 2018.
* Three-Self Patriotic Movement
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-Self_Patriotic_Movement
> The Three-Self Patriotic Movement is a Protestant organization in the People's Republic of China, and one of the largest Protestant bodies in the world. It is colloquially known as the Three-Self Church.
> In May 1950, Y. T. Wu and other prominent Protestant leaders such as T. C. Chao, Chen Chonggui, and Cora Deng met in Beijing with Zhou Enlai to discuss Protestant Christianity's relationship with the young People's Republic of China. "The Christian Manifesto" was published in July 1950 and its original title was "Direction of Endeavor for Chinese Christianity in the Construction of New China." During the 1950s, 400,000 Protestant Christians publicly endorsed and signed this document.
> The purpose of publishing this document was: to heighten our vigilance against imperialism, to make known the clear political stand of Christians in New China, to hasten the building of a Chinese church whose affairs are managed by the Chinese themselves, and to indicate the responsibilities that should be taken up by Christians throughout the whole country in national reconstruction in New China.
> It further stated the movement promoted the "self-governance, self-support, and self-propagation" of the Chinese church.
"And if you tolerate this, then your children will be next"
And in a more serious note, from "First they came.." [1]. It is about the cowardice of German intellectuals and certain clergy (including, by his own admission, Niemöller himself) following the Nazis' rise to power and subsequent incremental purging of their chosen targets, group after group.:
First they came for the Communists - And I did not speak out - Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists - And I did not speak out - Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists - And I did not speak out - Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews - And I did not speak out - Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me - And there was no one left - To speak out for me
But yeah, I think Putin gave up on internationalism back in the 2000s.
I also wouldn't want to be Mongolia. There's a potential that China will leave Mongolia intact as a buffer with the long Russian border. If China wants to expand its territory, there's no easier, larger target than Mongolia (17/18th largest nation by land with only 3m people and essentially no military ability to defend itself).
My (limited) understanding is that Mongolia is mostly steppe, and the Mongolians have several thousand years of claim to the land, neither of which is true of — say — Outer Manchuria. Russia will struggle to get much sympathy if the Chinese execute a “Crimean Gambit” there.
https://www.reddit.com/r/KireMama/duplicates/hda8kq/south_as...
Frankly, we all collectively should be downright ashamed of Trump being the leader of the most influential country in the world, the fact that this happened is a terrible strike against this particular form of democracy. The damage done will take decades to repair, and likely America's reputation in the world will never recover to the point that it was at before Trump pulled his coup of the Republican party.
Granted, but that's true of almost all of any politician's work. Kinda makes the point that it's not all bad, eh?
"America's reputation in the world" - give me a break. Out here, in the rest of the world, we don't really care. America really isn't (or ever was) the bright shining light the world looks to.