That makes me think that the whole organization has been bought out and sold off. But, that's just my knee-jerk reaction and a gut feeling.
That said, what's there to pay to be a member? Why not just stay in there like everyone else?
That makes me think that the whole organization has been bought out and sold off. But, that's just my knee-jerk reaction and a gut feeling.
That said, what's there to pay to be a member? Why not just stay in there like everyone else?
If he answers in the affirmative, he pisses off China, and will likely see them retaliate by withdrawing from cooperation at a time when that could have severe impacts on the world's ability to deal with a pandemic.
If he answers in the negative, he pisses off Taiwan, a lot of people, and a lot of countries who are also not willing to stand up to China on this issue.
And what's the benefit for asking this of an epidemiologist. He's not there to give personal political opinions, he's there to be an expert on a specific subject.
As for the rest of the issues - I know you're not specifically saying it, but there's a lot of folks that blame the WHO for not warning people about this, or delaying announcements.
The WHO were quite early in warning that countries should be prepared for this, that there should be greater efforts put in attempting to limit it's spread.
There is some truth that they didn't declare it a pandemic as early as everyone wanted, they had to wait for it to meet official definitions of being a pandemic.
The WHO declaring a pandemic, however, didn't mean countries couldn't act earlier to stop it.
It requires governments to sort this shit out, not an organisation who is focussed on health.
And they are not currently part of China. (Or, at least, they are not currently governed by the government of the rest of China.) Again, deal with it.
Different governments had different responses, which had different effects. Under the circumstances, to say "we already covered China" is pretty close to dereliction of duty.
Yes, I know China is going to have a hissy fit if anyone admits that Taiwan exists as a separate entity. China needs to stop acting like a five-year-old. I would say that WHO needs to tell China where to get off, except that (in this situation) WHO really needed China's cooperation. That makes this a much more difficult question to answer.
But, in fact, it is China that makes this a political question. The question itself is not inherently political.
As for whether they're part of China - that's also a political thing. If you don't believe that, then ask why the US doesn't formally recognise Taiwan as an independent country. Oh, right, because the US Government decided that it was better to keep having access to Chinese markets. The US isn't unique here, most countries don't formally recognise Taiwan either, because it's beneficial for them not to.
But:
> As for whether they're part of China - that's also a political thing.
Yes and no. No, they are not currently part of China. You have two separate governments, neither of which is subordinate to the other. Therefore neither one is part of the other. That's the de facto reality. It's not ambiguous, it's not subjective, and it's not open to interpretation.
But yes, it's political in that both sides claim a de jure unity - they just disagree about who's in charge of it. And it's political for everybody else, because they can't side with Taiwan without upsetting China, and they aren't willing to upset China.
But for China to try to pretend that the de facto situation is other than what it is... hey, we aren't blind, China. We know what the reality of the current situation is, no matter how much they try to pretend that it's something else.
"I'm sorry, but this is a political question which I'm not able to answer.".
or
"You know this question puts me in a difficult position and it is not up to me."
To me it seems his mind is made up. He does what China wants. He doesn't try to appear neutral. To him Taiwan is China.
But either way - it shows how great power China has over international bodies and it is scary.
Besides questions of WHO competency, we have to ask ourselves whether WHO even has good intentions in the first place.
It's not too dissimilar to taunting someone hoping they'll do something you can latch onto.
The lack of reaction / dodging was clearly enough to drive up a shitstorm. Any attempt to acknowledge and answer the question, even in deflecting it, was going to cause more trouble.
> it shows how great power China has over international bodies and it is scary.
It shows how much power China has in general.
Look at Hong Kong. Most countries are doing nothing except making vague statements for peace, at most some are offering refuge for some who want to escape.
This is certainly not true. WHO lawyer gave later lengthy explanation of WHO position on Taiwan on a press conference and nobody cared. It wasn't the issue of Taiwan that shocked people. Everyone following news knows that UN is politically paralyzed institution.
What was shocking, to me and people I know, was the extend of fear and disingenuity of a member of WHO. He has clearly western roots and we expect from him western political culture. He is the man in authority position who we are supposed to trust. But this behavior was all but trustworthy. He was deceiving. He was laying and he was voluntarily following Chinese party line.
The reporter was not stupid, indeed. It's her job to ask difficult questions.
I applaud her for opening my eyes to the fact that I should trust WHO only about us much as I trust China.
> Look at Hong Kong. Most countries are doing nothing except making vague statements for peace, at most some are offering refuge for some who want to escape.
Again, this is something that I tend to expect. Western states have nothing to gain there and we have no obligations to these 7.5 million people.
> It shows how much power China has in general.
I guess maybe I was naive, but my a prior would be that USA would have a lot more power. The fact that western people are bowing before China in this way is new to me.
[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization#Oper...
I don't know how much it costs, but there's also the signaling part of being in it (we are implicitly signaling support by being part of the group). That being said, leaving in the middle of the pandemic seems like an odd choice.
What is the return of investment (funds?) for being a member of this organization? I presume they're doing more than just handling Coronavirus.
So, I found the official data [1].
I̵n̵ ̵2̵0̵1̵9̵ ̵-̵ ̵U̵S̵ ̵p̵a̵i̵d̵ ̵$̵6̵7̵M̵ ̵o̵u̵t̵ ̵o̵f̵ ̵t̵o̵t̵a̵l̵ ̵$̵1̵0̵1̵M̵ ̵(̵6̵6̵%̵)̵ ̵i̵n̵ ̵f̵u̵n̵d̵i̵n̵g̵ ̵i̵f̵ ̵I̵ ̵a̵m̵ ̵r̵e̵a̵d̵i̵n̵g̵ ̵t̵h̵i̵s̵ ̵r̵i̵g̵h̵t̵ ̵[̵2̵]̵.̵
̵ ̵I̵n̵ ̵2̵0̵2̵0̵ ̵-̵ ̵U̵S̵ ̵p̵a̵i̵d̵ ̵$̵9̵9̵M̵ ̵o̵u̵t̵ ̵o̵f̵ ̵t̵o̵t̵a̵l̵ ̵$̵1̵8̵2̵M̵ ̵(̵5̵4̵%̵)̵ ̵i̵n̵ ̵t̵o̵t̵a̵l̵ ̵c̵o̵n̵t̵r̵i̵b̵u̵t̵i̵o̵n̵s̵.̵ ̵[̵3̵]̵
Correct source, US (gov) contributes about 16 % of the total budget: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization#Fina...
What does the US get in return? There is also soft power and other influence that US expects to gain from it besides the raw ROI. The initial assessment is impossible unless we understand the benefit of the membership.
[1] https://www.who.int/about/finances-accountability/funding/as...
[2] https://www.who.int/about/finances-accountability/funding/AC...
[3] https://www.who.int/about/finances-accountability/funding/20...
"The WHO has played a leading role in several public health achievements, most notably the eradication of smallpox, the near-eradication of polio, and the development of an Ebola vaccine."
A tiny drop in the bucket of the US budget to keep polio from resurging in the developing world sounds like a decent investment.
(Those numbers don't appear to be correct, either; the US contributes about 16%: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization#Fina...)
Definitely.
Can you double check the source I linked? I did and it contradicts with the wikipedia which is weird.
Eradication of smallpox was indeed an achievement, however, it was also many decades ago. The modern WHO is different people.
In more recent times, there is a history of problematic behaviour, like changing their own definition of pandemic specifically so they could declare one for a trivial disease (Swine Flu) and then lying about having done so, although archive.org remembers all:
https://www.forbes.com/2010/02/05/world-health-organization-...
And the WHO helps get it where it's needed.
https://www.who.int/news-room/detail/18-10-2019-major-milest...
> A randomized trial for the vaccine began during the West Africa Ebola outbreak in 2015. When no other organization was positioned to run a trial in Guinea during the complex emergency, the government of Guinea and WHO took the unusual step to lead the trial.
> A global coalition of funders and researchers provided the critical support required. Funders included the Canadian Government (through the Public Health Agency of Canada, Canadian Institutes of Health Research, International Development Research Centre, Global Affairs Canada); the Norwegian Ministry of Foreign Affairs (through the Research Council of Norway's GLOBVAC programme); the Wellcome Trust; the UK government through the Department for International Development; and Médecins Sans Frontières.
> In the current Ebola outbreak in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, more than 236,000 people have been vaccinated with rVSV ZEBOV GP donated by Merck to WHO, including more than 60,000 health and frontline workers in the Democratic Republic of the Congo and in Uganda, South Sudan, Rwanda and Burundi.
As for the Forbes blog, the author doesn't have a great record on public health: https://nypost.com/2020/03/08/coronavirus-going-to-hit-its-p...
Besides, the article you link says a lot of things that are true. Death rates vary according to age, China peaked and declined first, CV affects high risk groups the most (kinda tautological but not really discussed much in early March when it was written), etc. I'm not sure what's so objectionable about it.
All - please help verify the source I linked above if you can. Take it with a grain of salt for now.
For 2, where I think you pulled the $67/101 million, appears to be the outstanding balance of assessment including what was unpaid over previous periods. Not familiar with the data but that doesn't sound like the required contributions in a year, it just sounds like the US has the biggest unpaid assessed bill.
For 3, I don't see where you obtained those numbers either. The "gross assessment" which I assume is the contribution based on wealth/population is $236 million for the US vs $1076 million total assessed.
Again not familiar with the data, I could be wrong. That's how I am reading those documents though.
The great thing about local responses is that many different things can be tried, and different cultures with different viewpoints can be respected. When one organisation 'coordinates' the whole world, everyone can be wrong in unison. There's a lot of evidence that this has been happening with the WHO, but it's not just them.
Some of the most valuable evidence generated in COVID times is from comparing different countries to observe differences based on what they did (or lack of differences).
The WHO is an example of what one world government would look like: not a beatific utopia ruled by neutral and dispassionate experts, but incompetence and disarray unchecked by any sort of accountability. Remember: the WHO isn't run by a doctor but rather a former Ethiopian minister of finance. It has routinely made announcements that not only contradicted other health agencies and researchers but contradicted itself, as of a few weeks earlier.
For example, the WHO's report on non-pharmaceutical interventions prepared in pre-COVID times says:
https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/329438/9789...
"Pandemic: Not recommended under any circumstances: contact tracing, quarantine of exposed individuals, entry/exit screening, border closure"
For a mere epidemic they also don't recommend internal travel restrictions of any sort.
In other words, the WHO recommends against lockdowns. When faced with a virus that spreads in exactly the same way, and which it soon became clear was of similar severity, they haven't gone back and changed their beliefs nor prior advice though.
The WHO has no ability to enforce any standards of practice, and I am not saying it ought to. Sure, if they are recommending against something, there's nothing stopping a local jurisdiction from doing it anyway, if they think their conditions or capacities differ, or they have access to better scientific guidance. They may be making a terrible mistake, or not, so it goes. This is how it is, and it ought not to be any different.
But if you give up on coordination and cross-border mutual aid, and just say that it's every country/state/city/household for themselves to do what they personally decide best inconsistently with all their neighbors... well, how is that working out for the USA right now?
Should we also eliminate the CDC, and let each state do for themselves? And eliminate state depts of health, and let each city do for themselves? I mean, heck eliminate city depts of health too, just let each household do for themselves. Now different "cultures and viewpoints can be respected", right? That DOES seem to be the USA approach at times; it's not working out very well, because of some un-changeable facts about how infectious diseases work.
The OP is blaming the WHO for not supplying the right information in early January. Putting aside an argument about how (un)reasonable a mistake this was to make under the circumstances, if you're complaining that they didn't warn the world when they should have, how is it possibly an improvement to leave every country on their own to figure out the threat level from any part of the globe without coordination? How could that ever work better? If someone is complaining that the WHO didn't warn the world as early as they should, eliminating them so they dont' even exist to fill that role would obviously not produce a different outcome.
What you see across the world is that the population's behaviour is generally ahead of whatever rules or recommendations governments are coming up with. People figure out the risks to themselves and others faster than governments do because the latter are incentivised (or believe they are incentivised) to take a safety über alles approach, and are very easily pushed around by "experts" and journalists, in ways that smaller groups aren't.
Eliminating the CDC - I don't think the CDC has been particularly useful in this event either. Frankly as far as I am concerned governments have made what is now obviously a perfectly normal and trivial virus drastically worse, to the extent that we'd be far better off as a world, and far healthier as a population, if governments had literally done nothing at all. But doing nothing is paradoxically the hardest thing for any government to do. The best way to bring about that outcome is thus to just clear out organisations and government agencies that would otherwise following a road of, "something must be done, this is something, therefore it must be done", which seems to explain a good 90% of the lockdown absurdities I see on a daily basis.
If you want to consider that a successful outcome, I guess that is your perogative.
I am not about arguing it has to be a "rule" enforced by the police rather than a "recommendation". I don't think enforced by the police with penalties is what makes the difference between succesful control or not, that's not what I'm arguing for.
But arguing that not only no international coordination is required but no coordination of any kind, just people acting as their own personal epidimiologists based on what they read on social media... well, let's check back in a couple years and see how we think it's working out.
Firstly, it's not actually true that Sweden had far more deaths than its "neighbours". This is a bizarre form of cherry picking. Look across Europe and Sweden looks unremarkable: there are plenty of nearby countries that went full lockdown and saw far worse results. For this "neighbours" talking point to mean anything would require that physical proximity to Sweden meant something important, but it doesn't.
Secondly, "deaths from COVID" data is all horribly corrupted. It's actually "deaths with COVID" that gets reported, but that isn't obvious because it keeps being mis-labelled. We have no idea how many people have died from COVID. Only total excess deaths seems reliable because it doesn't have a definition that can be tampered with.
Thirdly, the idea that lockdowns are about reducing total deaths with or from COVID is not correct. That was retroactively invented when it became clear what a disastrous policy it is. Nobody claimed they could do that except by ensuring everyone gets healthcare, which is why they were justified on the grounds of preventing hospital overflow and nothing else. If everyone gets access to healthcare then the grounds for intervention evaporate. In Sweden everyone got healthcare, their hospitals were never even stressed. By lockdown's own logic, this proves Sweden's approach was correct. Hence the furious attempts to rewrite history by claiming lockdowns can save lives even when hospitals are quiet.
Sweden is seeing some economic disruption, partly caused by neighbours who cannot accept that they wrecked their own citizen's economy and civil liberties for nothing. Norway has publicly admitted lockdown was a mistake, for example, but has restricted travel from Sweden anyway. And of course the rest of the world committing economic hari-kari simultaneously will inevitably effect Sweden: it doesn't change the correctness of their response.
But arguing that not only no international coordination is required but no coordination of any kind, just people acting as their own personal epidimiologists based on what they read on social media... well, let's check back in a couple years and see how we think it's working out.
We don't need to wait two years. The armchair epidemiologists who argued against lockdown already won completely. There is no remaining argument, no debate to be had. Lockdowns were meant to avoid overflowing hospitals, places that didn't do them didn't see overflowing hospitals. End of story. Why: because every model generated by so-called experts was wrong. Every prediction was false. People were flagging this as a likely outcome immediately once the models were published. The countries that said actually this is trivial and we should do basically nothing, like Sweden and Belarus, have seen average outcomes even by the highly dubious standards of PCR testing. This suggests lockdowns have no effect at all (and which in turn suggests the testing might mostly be measuring noise).
That said, Maybe someone can explain why the USA just can't continue to refuse to pay their dues until there is substantial leadership change? My sense here is that this isn't related to an actual desire for better health organizations and more a mechanism for USA leadership to deflect from their own failings.
My guess is the whinging would be operatic.
And then, pausing SOLIDARITY on the HCQ arm because of the flawed Lancet study (granted, they weren't the only ones to fall for it).
The U.S. was paying about $400-500 million / year, not an insignificant amount of tax dollars to go to an organization that chose to help China at the U.S.' expense by lying and covering up necessary information.