Comment by systemvoltage | Hacker News Reader

Comment by systemvoltage | Hacker News Reader

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2017 - I remember when Trump had initiated the trade war, it was such a taboo to support it. I am not a fan of trump but the progressives in the Silicon Valley would abandon me in a mob mentality god forbid if I said something I like about Trump. I had pretty unpleasant pushbacks during lunch breaks and then I stopped discussing things all together.

Living here in the valley, I wonder what’s the difference between aggressively progressive places and aggressively conservative places like a small town in Arkansas? To me, they are both intolerant of opposing views, don't think for themselves and subscribe to extremely strong stances.

Being a centrist, I feel like I am exiled in this country by all sides. The stronger one's view, the more burden is on them to prove their view with data, successive chain of logic and reasoning. I am constantly wary of my own views because either circumstances change, my understanding improves or new data is available. This is the HN way.

Indeed. The tactics and intolerance for different opinions is pretty similar on both ends of the political spectrum.

I think the US would make a huge leap forward if different political opinions we're viewed with "I disagree with you" versus "your beliefs mean youre a bad person".

As a centrist saying. Irving particularly offensive your post was downvoted. I feel my days on HN are numbered. One used to be able to have an intellectually honest discussion. Now step out of line and it’s downvotes. This kind of monoculture isn’t healthy.

Nope. Hackernews is an leftist ideological echo chamber and I love it.

I feel bad for anyone who can’t handle diversity of opinion and the destruction it always causes.

Just say your thing and make your reasoned points and who cares about downvotes.

Downvotes are a flag for disagreement. I am interested in the reasoned points of those who disagree with me. Since I was downvoted and no comment was left, I requested that those who downvoted come forth with their reasoned points. One or both of us have an opportunity to learn something when that happens.

Nothing Trump has done has come close to the massive gift Trump gave China by killing the TPP.

This idea that Trump is somehow harder on China is laughable.

Trump has been screaming China loudly, but his actions amount to barely a whimper, and the cost has been paid overwhelmingly by Americans.

TPP on the other hand would have actually been effective by giving American companies 4-5 alternative countries they could relocate their operations too, with the added incentive that the TPP requirements would have protected their IP from being stolen like it is in China. And it would have cost the US nothing, because the relocated businesses were not in the US anyways, but were in China.

In fact, the added diversity of countries to manufacture would have probably made it even more of a win for the US.

The idea that Trump has been anything but a massive gift for China is ridiculous. There’s a reason China has ramped up its aggressiveness worldwide towards the end of the Trump admin (although they are probably clearly overreaching, but they realize this might be their last chance to make hay without the US doing anything).

Seconded

Trump did go all out with his Trump card, trade and tariff.

But he can do so much more without playing this card to this extent.

Fear is what motivates people, the ideal that China would subject to all around 25% tariffs would put Xi on the edge. But Trump actually just went and realized the consequences because he thought he could.

Now the fear factor is gone. Surprisingly little had accomplished. Decoupling is sealed. CCP headliners had proved their view of US is always right and controls the narrative.

And the means to further escalation on the table is war.

Pretty unwitty and wasteful if you ask me.

Trump's trade war was an attempt to pressure China to reduce the trade deficit and help him in the 2020 election. It had absolutely nothing to do with human rights. If anything, Trump admires dictators who violate the human rights of their citizens.

There absolutely nothing logical about supporting a policy that superficially looks like a policy you support but has entirely different goals.

Who's talking about human rights? I was talking about economics of trade, which is what this article is about.

> Trump's trade war was an attempt to pressure China to reduce the trade deficit and help him in the 2020 election.

Yes, I support this view, although I don't support his re-election.

> If anything, Trump admires dictators who violate the human rights of their citizens.

Agreed, this was absolutely reprehensible and don't forget Russia.

I honestly have no energy to debate anymore. And this is not something I want to get into right now, the point was about being tolerant to other's views and try to understand why they think that way.

It was inconceivable to me even one year ago that American citizens could be beaten in public for supporting the president.

This is not rational in any explanation.

Downvoters: describe your rational explanation for beating an American citizen in public because they support the president.

I will explain. Hackernews is a leftist ideological echo chamber. If you scroll through this thread you’ll notice downvoted posts don’t even get a good reply as to why they’re wrong.

The down-voters are hurt and clueless.

It's a strawman. There isn't some rash of unprovoked public beatings of people because they happen to be Trump supporters.

Watch the video. The first assault is mild. The student punched in the face could have knocked teeth out:

https://wjla.com/news/nation-world/rising-political-tension

Punched in the face for wearing a hat in Russian. The assailant couldn't read it, but attacked once the wearer told him the translation:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/man-beaten-up-in-california-re...

And here is seven pages of a Political Violence Report, official congressional record:

https://docs.house.gov/meetings/JU/JU00/20190409/109266/HHRG...

Here are three more, including an 81 year-old man:

https://www.bostonherald.com/2019/02/28/maga-hat-wearing-vic...

This was a serious beating, an art gallery owner:

https://abcnews.go.com/US/york-city-gallery-owner-attacked-w...

Citing the Berkeley assault, this guy wrote and app to help conservatives find safe places to dine out:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/03/11/need-safe...

This is attempted murder:

https://abcnews.go.com/US/man-arrested-allegedly-driving-van...

I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but it's not new or significant. It isn't some unique phenomenon to this time and this political orientation. And people downvoted that comment not because they support political violence, but because centrism is perceived as a cop-out, as just an implicit support for the status quo.

Regarding the 7 page listing of more than 200 various acts of political violence, including attempted murder, against conservative politicians;

I searched for the same document produced during the Obama administration and could not find one. From that I infer that during his administration, neither conservative nor liberal politicians saw political violence as enough of a concern to list it and enter into the permanent record of the United States Congress.

Political violence and oppression was one of the primary motivators for the United States to seek independence from England. We are going backwards.

Could you link to what you’re talking about?

Parent's insightful comments about the risk for expressing even centrist views. He implies he was shunned. 'Conservatives' risk physical harm for revealing their political leanings:

>I had pretty unpleasant pushbacks during lunch breaks and then I stopped discussing things all together.

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