Hacker News Reader

Comment by saiya-jin | Hacker News Reader

> easily as good as anything from Europe

That's a strong statement. I've yet to come to anything even remotely close to the taste of aged (2-3 years minimum, when grains form inside) hard cheeses like Comte, Gruyere, Beaufort and probably dozen or two more, mostly french. Copies I've had, sometimes even more expensive than original, can't seriously compare (ie french versions of Gruyere vs original AOC variant, and one would expect that French would get this right).

If you actually done that comparison in person, then I believe you, otherwise, buy a plane ticket after covid. What folks here can create from raw cow/goat/sheep/buffalo milk and some bacteria (and/or worms) is ridiculously good, an universe of tastes on its own.

And I haven't even started into properly artisanal, often local-only cheeses. They are not exported even within their own country, forget to see it anywhere across the pond.

View on HN

[ personal background: grew up in the UK, lived in the US for 31 years, lived for extended periods in Heidelberg and Berlin, and have travelled extensively in Europe over the last 40 years. Have visited the supposedly best cheese stores in France, Spain and Germany. I live on cheese :) ]

Almost anything that goes through the the Jasper Hill Cellars in Vermont is going to give you incredible cheese (they don't make them all, but they do act as an aging facility).

Hard cheese is more of long shot in the US, although amazingly the WI-based Bellavitano brand is trying hard (admittedly a lot of the time by adding flavorings, but still ...). Landaff is another hard cheese somewhat similar to some of the tangier UK hard cheeses, but quite unique.

Cheddars in the US are nothing like UK cheddar (as the article noted). New England cheddars probably have the most complex flavor profile, as long as you stay on the "sharp" end of the scale. They are as strong as a good west country cheddar, but just different.

For soft cheeses though, OMG, an embarrassment of riches. Winnimere - unctuous, stinky, incredible. Humboldt Fog - goat, with ash layer, delicious, midway between the really strong French ripened goats and mere chevre. Oma and Moses Sleeper (both ripened at Jasper Hill) are also deep and complex.

There are a couple of blues too: Russian River (out of central CA) and Bayley Hazen are particularly interesting, though also quite unlike any of the great european blue cheeses (nobody seems to be trying this, sadly).

And these are all nationally distributed varieties. If you live in the right parts of the US, there are typically local varieties (at least of soft types, less so for hard cheeses) that will be worth trying.

None of this is to say that US cheese is "better". It's just amazing how far it has come in the last 20 years, and how good the best of it is compared to european options.

Gruyere remains unmatched anywhere. But that doesn't excuse the northern european tier (Nederlands, Germany in particular) from producing "cheese" generally better suited to filling holes in walls than eating! :)

I'm no cheese expert but I've toured parts of Europe sampling their cheeses and I completely agree: Vermont--Jasper Hill especially--has a lot of great cheeses.

American cheeses are different, though, sometimes because of pasteurization laws. If one wants a great Brie then don't get an American cheese. But if someone wants a great bloomy-rind cheese that can rival the best European cheeses try Jasper Hill's Harbison (or any of the others mentioned above).

Actually, can I just highly recommend going into the Northeast Kingdom Tasting Center in Newport, VT for all of the Jasper Hill aficionados coming out of the woodwork in this thread?

It's hilariously out of the way, but it seems that the Northeast Kingdom region of Vermont is cranking out some seriously good food and spirits. Caledonia Spirits makes two extremely solid gins, and the aperitif ciders from Eden Ciders have to be tasted to be believed.

I'll have to visit the Northeast Kingdom Tasting Center, thank you! Any other recommendations for foods to try (or things to visit) in that area?

Define "that area". :) The Alchemist Brewery in Stowe is highly rated and there are a few other craft breweries around Burlington. If you're taking Hwy 91 through the state they might be a little out of the way.

Willey's Store in Greensboro will have most of Jasper Hill cheeses for sale and maybe an experimental cheese or two. The HQ for Ben & Jerry's ice cream is in Waterbury and the tour is fun (with a free sample at the end).

Depending on when you go there will likely be farmer's markets all through the area with local producers selling all sorts of great stuff.

Thank you! I'm mostly interested in stuff in VT and NH (up and down the whole state) but a bit further away is fine :)

I'll have to check those out, thanks for the recommendations! Especially the gin and cider sounds great!

Here's a few more if you're taking a broad interpretation of "that area".

I haven't yet been to or tried Farnum Hill Ciders in the Lebanon, NH area, but I've heard it's worth a visit. They've been in business at least 20 years, so they must be doing something right.

Hogwash Farm has pretty solid sausage (and other meats) and sells from a farm stand. I'm sure there are many other excellent similar farms. That's just one I've tried.

Woodbelly Pizza is a mobile operation based in Montpelier does wood fired pizza that's highly worth catching. The oven is on a trailer. They might be at the Montpelier farmers' market.

Cabot used to do tour of their creamery but apparently discontinued that in 2018. They still offer samples, according to their website. Their location in Quechee also offers samples.

If you come during sugaring season, you can't throw a stone without hitting a sugar house. I haven't yet had bad maple syrup.

Less Vermont-specific, the Inn at the Long Trail is home to an Irish pub with a pretty broad selection of Irish whiskey.

And getting pretty far afield, the Euro Delli du Village in Mansonville, Quebec had some pretty damn good sandwiches when we were portaging through in 2016 or 2017. If you've made it as far as Newport VT, it's only a half hour drive (plus a border crossing, obviously).

In addition to Caledonia Spirits, Barr Hill makes a killer Gin (the vodka is totally under-appreciated, imo), and Hooker Mountain Distillery makes a bunch of interesting stuff (my favorite is Spruce), at affordable prices.

I'll cast a second vote for Bayley Hazen. It's from Jasper Hill Farm in VT, and it's unreal.

The Harbison is similarly divine. It's unusual in that it's a soft cheese wrapped in the cambium of spruce trees. If this sounds weird, it is, but the result is incredible.

I am so happy to see so many people who love Jasper HIll. It warms my vermonter heart. :)

As a recent transplant from the Boston area, howdy from the WRJ area!

I was with you until you took a shot at Dutch cheese :) What's your problem with it? I find the Netherlands (for a tiny country of 16 million) has an excellent diversity of cheeses of high quality. In every town in the country you can find supermarkets with a fantastic assortment of cheese, and in cities specialty shops with great variety. Plenty of cheese shops make their own cheeses, and it's all extremely local - a few times I've bought cheese where you can see the cows that produced it from the window!

Also, I've found myself (for the duration of the coronavirus) not too far from Vermont. Is there anywhere else you'd recommend visiting in the area aside from Jasper Hill Cellars? Thanks for the recommendation of Jasper Hill, I'll have to visit :)

> I was with you until you took a shot at Dutch cheese :) What's your problem with it?

Too much rubber :) There are some good dutch (and german) cheeses, it is true. But I find that too many of them share a texture that I have a hard time appreciating. Fine, I guess for fondue or other melting applications, but the idea of eating it as doesn't do much for me.

Another side note: I was in southern Spain in the winter of 2016/2017 and was amazed that almost none of the cheese that I could buy there seemed to be exported, and likewise, almost all of the Spanish cheese I've seen in the US and the UK was quite hard to find in Spain (regular stores, not cheese stores).

I'm just going to keep boosting Jasper Hill wherever I see it. :). I love all of their cheeses. They recently came out with a Winnimere with Barr Hill gin (another top-shelf artisanal producer in VT that makes stellar liquor). It's an embarrassment of riches indeed.

My experience is that there is phenomenal cheese on both sides of the Atlantic, so much so it's ridiculous in my mind to argue about who has the best cheese, because they both have the best cheese. It's a win-win situation.

The problem in both regions, if you want to call it a problem, is that much of the variety is in local cheeses you'll never or rarely see going outside of a zip code, state, or country (in the case of Europe). So someone will move to, say, Virginia in the US and conclude that they've sampled US cheese, not being aware of all the local cheeses in another state that never travel outside of the area of a few counties. The same thing can happen in the UK and Europe. The cheeses I've loved most have been from these local dairies, cheeses that don't quite fit into traditional categories, and that I can never find unless I'm physically in the area.

> one would expect that French would get this right

They do get it right, it's just called Comté ;) (really - the Comté area is not very far away from Gruyères)

Personally I prefer Comté for eating and Gruyère for cooking.

There are plenty of American cheeses that win the top prize in international competitions. Six of the eight cheddar categories at the following competition were won by US cheeses.

https://wccc.myentries.org/contest/results?event=63&submit=S...

Wow! Six of eight domestic cheeses won at a 'world cheese' competition sponsored by the Wisconsin Cheese Makers Association. Colour me surprised! I am sure the fix was not in on that particular contest...

There actually are some good US cheeses, although oddly enough not a single one of them comes from Wisconsin to the best of my knowledge. (Vermont, Iowa, and California in case you were wondering.)

That was just the first link I found, and it was just for the first category. Other (non-US based) competitions also have winning cheeses from the US. My point was only that there are certainly good cheeses from the US. Of course, it's all subjective, so it doesn't mean that any one person will be able to find a favorite cheese from there.

https://gff.co.uk/awards/world-cheese-awards/

Reply on news.ycombinator.com