Tesla ranks last on influential JD Power quality survey | Hacker News Reader

Tesla ranks last on influential JD Power quality survey

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The comments here are weird and conspiratorial.

"the results immediately suspect."

"makes me question just how influential this survey is"

"one "survey".... what happened to integrity?"

"Dodge looks like they paid a lot of money"

The JD Power methodology is right there to read. If you're going to accuse them of corruption, maybe a bit of evidence?

Or maybe, just maybe, Tesla has reliability issues. Many people outside the tech circles have known about this for a long time. They are being sued for paint issues. Panel alignment is terrible. I've seen videos of people going through the car wash and water leaking through the headliner.

Do you really think that stuff happens with Dodges and Kias?

Surprised as well, Teslas are known for their quality issues and huge waiting times for parts.

There are videos on the Tesla subreddit on checklists to go through to make sure you get a decent car with few issues and dozens of horror stories on people that didn’t go through those.

And I’m saying that as someone who wants one.

I'm just hoping other companies can offer something coming close to competing with Tesla in the next five years (my timeline for getting a new car). I'm already leery of Tesla's autopilot being more camera-based.

That might be quite a while. People have been waiting since the original Model S came out in 2012.

The reason is that other manufacturers make money.

Full self-driving is an optional feature; autopilot can be disabled (most features are by default). most new cars (including my cheap little 2018 Toyota) rely on cameras for things like auto-braking and adaptive cruise control.

>Do you really think that stuff happens with Dodges and Kias?

Yes, ofcourse. Why wouldn't it? No such thing as a perfect production line. It's bound to happen. A 2 min cursory search already yielded these results for Dodge & Kia:

"UPDATE: 2019 Dodge Challenger R/T Scat Pack 1320 Paint Issue!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwczheXKGWg

"WARNING 2019 HELLCAT CHALLENGER REDEYE WIDEBODY SRT / PAINT CHIPPING ISSUES / WIDEBODY BLUES"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dg9IVj1S6bY

"Uneven roof panel gaps"

https://www.ramforumz.com/threads/uneven-roof-panel-gaps.239...

"Common Problems, Issues and Complaints with the Genesis G70 (Paint issues and excessive panel gaps)"

https://www.genesisg70forum.com/threads/common-problems-issu...

Another article posted yesterday noted that the primary complaints were related to the tech stuff in the cars (touch screens, Car Play, Android whatever, etc...). Given how different Tesla’s interface is compared to a traditional car it make sense that new users would gripe about those things during the first 90-days of ownership.

Edit, the article: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/06/teslas-are-the-most-unr...

and a quote: “Ars readers may not be surprised to discover that the most troublesome of these categories was infotainment, which accounted for almost a quarter of all problems.”

> Another article posted yesterday noted that the primary complaints were related to the tech stuff in the cars (touch screens, Car Play, Android whatever, etc...). Given how different Tesla’s interface is compared to a traditional car it make sense that new users would gripe about those things during the first 90-days of ownership.

Doesn't Tesla touch-screen all the things? The users are right to gripe: touch screens are visually impressive but suck to use, especially when better options are available.

They finished second bottom in the Honest John reliability survey too [1], so maybe not just the infotainment system. Only Jeep were worse. I love watching the mental gymnastics required to support Musk, it's the closest thing the internet has to a spectator sport.

[1] https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/honest-john-satisfaction-index-...

I’m neither for nor against Tesla, but if someone is saying a car is unreliable because people complain about the infotainment systems... that seems deceptive. I think myself, and every driver I have ever talked with, care about two primary things re reliability after the initial cost of a car: how safe it is and how much it costs to maintain every xx,xxx miles. All this other stuff is distracting and is trying to imply important aspects of a car are inferior when they may not be.

Here are the pros and cons that honestjohn focus on re the Model S in their “reliability” assessment: Pros -Excellent performance with usable battery range. Impressive, huge touchscreen interface. Practical interior with plenty of luggage space. Easy to drive.

Cons - Fit and finish could be better for a car at this price. Supercharger network small, but growing.

It wasn't a touchscreen, but my dash display in my 2018 Accord needed immediate replacement when I bought it new. After that repair the first week, never had any issues.

"Dodge and Kia were tied for the top-rated brand with just 136 issues per 100 vehicles."

I haven't read much more into this, but if a Dodge is more reliable than a Toyota I'll eat a roll of paper towels

Great line

This is the "initial quality" survey. Reliability isn't really part of that.

Dodge is on top instead of Toyota or Honda? This makes the results immediately suspect.

It's in the first 90 days. Perhaps Toyota or Honda put additional features in their car that require some tweaking? When I bought a new 2018 Accord, the fancy display immediately had issues from day 1 and needed replacing. After that, no issues.

Usage of the word “Quality” rather than “Initial quality” in the article headline makes it all look like some kind of lame hatchet job

Yeah, the submitted article's title doesn't tell the entire story. That's why it's always important to comment on the article, not the headline.

I disagree. Deception isn't cool and its worth calling it out when it happens.

>Dodge is on top instead of Toyota or Honda? This makes the results immediately suspect.

If you have evidence to the contrary, can you provide the forum with links?

According to JD Power [1], Lexus is the most dependable 2019 brand. Dodge is the most improved, but its still lower in the list. And according to Consumer Reports study on 2020 models [2] Lexus is the most reliable brand but Dodge is in the top 10. The CR results are behind a paywall so here's a USA Today article covering the study [3].

[1]: https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2019-us-vehi...

[2]: https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-owner-satisf...

[3]: https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2019/11/14/consume...

Edit: Toyota does appear higher than Dodge in both studies.

You're literally talking about a different measure. This article is about initial issues (first 90 days of ownership); dependability refers to long-term ownership

"overall dependability for three-year-old vehicles"

Fair point. This does illustrate why someone might find it surprising that Dodge is outranking Toyota in a measure of quality though.

Ram is listed separately from Dodge (I'm guessing they are technically different companies now?)

Combined they'd get 277 which would put them last

Edit: correction - as stan_rogers says below, adding gives problems per 200 cars. 277 / 2 = 138.5

It's problems per 100 vehicles. If you add them up, you get problems per 200 vehicles. If you go back to 100 vehicles, you'd have 139 (assuming they round up).

Good catch - I added an edit

And even then, dividing by 2 wouldn't necessary match up, since Rams are just one of multiple Dodge vehicles. (Not sure if the weight of each model is based on sales share or random)

You'd also have to weight it, I'm sure Ram isn't exactly 50% of Dodge's portfolio.

The fact that Dodge and Kia top the list makes me question just how influential this survey is.

Kia, yes, but Dodge looks like they paid a lot of money. Or their users are really very happy. Ram users certainly are for sure.

For Mercedes and Volvo I think the costs of the repairs are also an important factor.

We have a Chrysler Pacifica plugin hybrid minivan that we bought in 2017 (I think ours was the first our dealership sold) and have been very happy with it.

This survey only covers issues in the first 90 days. In terms of repair cost, anything that comes up in the first 90 days is likely covered under warranty, so the cost of repairs would be $0.

Interesting. Now this completely changes my mind on these cars.

It's not long term reliability, it's issues in the first 90 days. Perhaps Dodge and Kia put less bells and whistles and the real issues are likely to crop up later.

"...the JD Power Initial Quality Study, which measures vehicle quality in the first 90 days of ownership..."

Keep in mind this isn't a long-term reliability or quality measure. The more innovative the car, the more likely it may need an adjustment or tweak in the beginning.

dupe: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23637920

JD Power is a fake award invented by the auto companies to give themselves anyway. I put zero stock in what gets awarded. It's complete BS.

"April 1, 1968: Dave Power and his wife Julie start the firm from the kitchen table in their Calabasas, Calif., home."

"1969: J.D. Power enters the auto market with its first client, Toyota Motor Company."

https://www.jdpower.com/About-Us

how to completely discredit your company (JD power) in one "survey".... what happened to integrity?

Why do you say that? Are there legit issues with the methodology etc, or just because they gave your favorite company a bad placement?

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