Tesla included in J.D. Power survey for the first time, and it’s bad | Hacker News Reader

Tesla included in J.D. Power survey for the first time, and it’s bad

arstechnica.com

35 pointsMBCook15 comments

I find it interesting that in the PP100 (Problem Per 100 Cars sold) no one is doing better than 136, so on average every new car has a problem.

Curious how J.D. Power is defining "a problem" the article provides this insight

"It now asks 223 questions, split into nine categories: including infotainment, features, controls and displays, exterior, interior, powertrain, seats, driving experience, climate, and (new for 2020) driving assistance. Ars readers may not be surprised to discover that the most troublesome of these categories was infotainment, which accounted for almost a quarter of all problems. Top complaints here were voice recognition, Android Auto and Apple CarPlay connectivity, touchscreens, onboard navigation, and Bluetooth issues."

I guess I would want to get the car with the least number of problems, but without additional clarification into their methodology, I don't know how to best interpret these numbers.

I mean if someone is having trouble pairing their off-brand Wish Bluetooth headset to their car and considers that a problem, I would hope they weight it less severely than say, the brakes failing.

I tried to find out more about their methodology but found this rather scant page https://www.jdpower.com/ratings-methodology

> I find it interesting that in the PP100 (Problem Per 100 Cars sold) no one is doing better than 136

Oh? Check the Camry's number.

Don't trust any survey for which you can't read the questions.

The rankings just make no sense to me - even though I would expect Tesla rank on lower end.

My suspicion is that either the top American companies have figured out how to game the survey or JD Power is using a flawed method.

Example how on earth has Dodge, Chevy and Mitsubishi (in the top 10) beat companies long known for excellent quality? i.e. Lexus, Acura, Porsche.

Finally, this one surely can't be true: BMW has better initial quality than Honda, Toyota and Porsche?!? Everyone I know who has bought a BMW in the last few years has had numerous issues out of the gate!

p.s. yes, I realize this my anecdotal opinion. But, I'd like to see other corroborating data that backs up JDP.

Initial quality consists of things like does the infotainment system work well...

The article says:

"According to J.D. Power's survey, Tesla's initial quality score is 250 PP100, a feat which makes even Audi and Land Rover seem reliable by comparison."

Yet, Audi has 225 problems per 100 cars and land rover 228 problems per 100 cars. If I'm understanding it correctly, doesn't seem like a huge difference. Especially when AUdi and Land Rover are somewhat luxury brands themselves. With VOlvo at 210.

Considering they are still somewhat a relatively new car company, certainly at this scale, this seems OK to me.

I reckon buyers probably go in knowing they are somewhat of a guinea pig at this stage.

Not only that but most of the brands that I would be interested in are almost all below the average, in fact the only brands two in top group I would consider are Lexus and Genesis. And it's not like Tesla is way out of the ball park either, a one million mile Tesla with three superficial flaws, almost no maintenance, very low depreciation and no gas costs beats the other cars here any day.

Let’s see, Dodge and Kia and Chevy on top with Honda and Toyota in the bottom half. I am instantly suspicious.

It looks like they're looking at initial "problems" which are pretty broadly defined. Those can be complete failure to drive, to what they perceive to be a confusing interface with no weighting to them[0]. It also looks at a snapshot in time (when the car is manufactured) rather than the reliability of the car in the future.

At first glance it seems like this is a terrible way of evaluating cars, but my suspicious side hypothesizes that this opacity in their evaluation is a feature not a bug which allows them to accept payment in exchange for favorable reviews.

[0]https://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/30/why-consumer-rep...!

They ask questions by feature, so I assume Kia fares well just because they have usually far less features in their cars? No surprise to see Tesla low, but others (Porsche, Toyota) low is really surprising.

I drive and maintain older mercs, and don't really give a shit about problems in the first 90 days, for me it's number of problems at 20 years. These surveys don't reveal anything about that.

I feel for the hard core automotive engineers who are forced to allow the monstrosity that is Bluetooth into their works of art.

Zebra corner hasn't covered Tesla's yet, they need to in his rants about jd power and GM

Here is our model Y. What price range would you put this car in? - Would not pay a dime over 15.5.

Toyota is right down. Not sure why?

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