London tube map made from a working circuit board | Hacker News Reader

London tube map made from a working circuit board

ianvisits.co.uk

287 pointsalkhidr57 comments

I like this but one thing - it looks like the lights only show if a train is at a station , then goes off once it leaves, so seemingly you have random lights - instead of a light traversing a path. Or did I misunderstand looking at the gif?

Update: I do love this project I would really like this to be resolved so it’s perfect perhaps lights should stay on until the train reaches the next station?

>Although it’s designed to work with TrainTrackr’s own servers, you can reprogramme the chip if you want, and they provide some details for people who can do that sort of thing.

Should be simple enough if you're up to it - prove you are worthy to display something like this :)

Consider there are over 500 trains active during (non-pandemic) peak so I guess some compromise is clearly required! And yes, a very pleasing display nonetheless.

Yes, there are typically a lot more trains active than stations, so many of the lights would be lit up nearly all the time if you tried to represent each individual train. Some lines (Victoria) actually have more trains in service than there are platforms during peak times.

It would be neat if you could say highlight a certain route or two and have a different coloured led show it transverse the line. That way it is not so cluttered with all the other trains but informative to the individual.

Your updated suggestion was my first thought as well. That way you could follow a train as it moves from one station to the next.

> perhaps lights should stay on until the train reaches the next station?

At peak times that would mean most lines would just be constantly lit

Really you need a "tunnel" LED between each station pair, so you could extinguish the one light, light the "in transit" light. I guess it would need 2 or more LEDs per inter-station section (or a colour change).

This! A "tunnel" LED between stations should be only 25% bright and with distinct color.

UPDATE: Maybe a LED per direction in tunnel would also be useful.

PC motherboard OEMs have done some interesting things with RGB LEDs and areas of the PCB with clear or no soldermask and copper removed from all layers to leave a translucent region of fiberglass that can be back-lit. This can achieve an effect similar to electroluminescent wire, and would be suitable for the tunnel segments of the map.

At that point you're better off just getting a screen and drawing whatever you want on it, and kind of losing the point of the project, frankly.

Yes, I guess we're information junkies! The feature-creep is real.

I seem to recall the actual control centres used to use a big map with the train lines drawn using a line of bulbs, and indicating trains buy a series of bulbs. Similar to this, http://photos.signalling.org/_datas/o/n/d/ondcx12zxd/i/uploa... .

Each tunnel is only for a single direction and thus you can actually have multiple trains between the same two stations but heading in opposite directions. Moreover, at rush hour some of the busier lines might even have more than one train in the same tunnel for some stretches of tracks.

There is no way a PCB this size could give an accurate representation. I'm not even sure that level of detail is even published by the TFL. But it shouldn't matter, this is clearly intended to be more ornamental than it is a functional tool for locating carriages.

If you can show a train leaving, and a train arriving then you only lack direction, which should be in the datastreams.

So you'd leave(station=A,direction=0), then increment the tunnel A-B until you next had an arrive(station=B,0) when you'd decrement the tunnel section. Even branched tunnels Should Just Work ®. The tunnels are stacks, unless there are hidden sidings and such, things should add up. Bonus you change colour according to magnitude of $tunnelABC.

You'd need just under twice the LEDs though.

More than twice because each station has multiple platforms so you'd need more double the LEDs just for the stations (stations with more than one line would need a minimum of 4 times as many LEDs). Then you have to double that up for each tunnel too. Even with your revisions if you have a train arriving on one platform and leaving on another, which does actually happen (a lot!), then the PCB has no way of representing that data stream.

Ultimately the level of detail you're describing is not feasible with the aesthetic the designer was going for. This is one of those problems that appears much easier than it really is.

Plus, at risk of repeating myself, this is clearly intended to be more ornamental than it is a functional tool for locating carriages.

>Ultimately the level of detail you're describing is not feasible with the aesthetic the designer was going for. //

Absolutely. Appreciate your comments ... maybe when the kids leave home I'll get around to putting my money where my mouth is.

Hi, Richard here from Traintrackr

For the MBTA in Boston we did this, but their system is much less complex than London - https://www.traintrackr.co.uk/product/mbta4

I don't think London Underground release that level of information. Thameslink does[1], Overground should too.

https://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/tlk_core

I expect TfL's "Tube departure boards, line status and station status"[0] feed would suffice. It's updated every 30 seconds. Plenty more data available too.

[0]: https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/open-data-users/

Maybe let it blink fast while the train is moving towards the station? Or the other way around if you prefer a more calm overall appearance of the board.

Experiment with blinking the leds synchronously (or not).

It might be nice to be able to see train delays and flow.

Circuit-board transit maps face the challenge of showing train flow with their few LEDs. Online transit maps have lots of pixels, but face the challenge of showing patterns of flow at time scales larger than a users glance.

One brainstormy idea that has come up in conversation, is to do something analogous to wind graphics like [1], which convey air motion using sample particles moving with unrealistic speed. Perhaps one might do something similar with trains?

[1] https://www.windy.com/-Pressure-pressure https://www.windfinder.com/

Hi, Richard here from Traintrackr

As others have mentioned, there are more trains running than there are station LEDs, so in central London the LEDs would almost always be on, which didn't look as good.

For the MBTA in Boston we added LEDs in between each station, and even went further and added LEDs for each direction, but with only 4 lines it was much easier to put together - https://www.traintrackr.co.uk/product/mbta4

We're looking into this for London, but making it look good is significantly more complex with the number of lines and large interchange stations.

Your projects look amazing, contragulation ! You could fade the led to depict the train distance to the station ? Like that, you would have a nice transition between stations, and if there are multiples train incoming/going from it you sums the intensities ?

I think it would add another level of smoothness to it.

I had a go making something similar with an e-ink display, albeit much less refined.

https://www.rrayns.co.uk/posts/29-09-2019_e-ink-station-watc...

This is so cool, especially because the Tube map was inspired by a circuit diagram in the first place!

https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/about-tfl/culture-and-heritage/...

"Incidentally, the story that Harry Beck based his original map design on the electronic circuit board is a myth. There is indeed a Beck style circuit board design tube map in the archives, but it was apparently a joke that was presented to him long after the tube map had been adopted by London Transport."

from TFA

That exact phrase pops up a lot (like it gets pasted verbatim around the net) but I've yet to see any evidence to corroborate it's even true. Where as it has been widely reported by a number of independent sources (Beck's family, the Transport for London, etc) that Back's plans were based on circuit diagrams. So I have a hard time believing the 'myth' argument is more trustworthy.

Please also note when they talk about Beck's inspiration they say "circuit diagram" and not "circuit board", like the paragraph you quoted.

As far as my brief research shows, Harry Beck came up with his original tube map design in 1931 (which is actually quite different to what we know it as today btw), while the first printed circuit board was invented in 1936 by Paul Eisler. Thus while it's possible that Harry Beck was inspired by circuit diagrams, it's surely not possible that he was inspired by (printed) circuit boards.

I think nicer are these real time mini tube departure boards, apparently you can get them customized for any station on the network: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgLGKjj3GwI

See also this Tiny Train Departure Board: https://hackaday.com/2019/08/05/a-tiny-train-departure-board...

And this one which I think looks really slick as well. https://hackaday.io/project/9690-tram-departure-time-indicat...

It seems to require an account to set up and use: https://www.traintrackr.co.uk/setup

I think it would be cool to make a mosaic of such circuit boards, one per European city with a subway, arranged in the shape of Europe.

Or flights.

https://www.flightradar24.com

I absolutely love this! But during busy times many lines have trains separated by <= 2 stations (often < 3 minutes between trains on Victoria line), so one would expect most of the lights to be on. How does it decide which trains to draw?

The trains typically stop for ~16 seconds at a time. Even on say 8 platforms thats under 3 mins. Plenty of time for gaps between lighting up! (could also alternate colours with blinking)

Visual open data! It's not clear to me in America if I can buy the 'Tube' one. I've spent quite a bit of time in London and it just interests me more. Wonder if they'd also consider making a Paris Metro one?

You can suggest "where next" on the source product site, I did that for where I live

The London boards are for sale in the US - https://www.traintrackr.io/product/

Paris is certainly on the list for future maps.

This needs a live version of each board shown online. This would give you an idea of the utility. So, right now, the UK rain map should be pretty idle since it is a very sunny day, at least in the south. The tube map should be something you can watch for a few minutes to get an idea as to how it updates itself.

The Boston board has the station names etched onto the board. Clearly the London large board could have some names etched in. London has a lot of tube stations though so this could result in a lot of visual clutter. But trains do have their destinations and 'via' on the signs, e.g. 'Cockfosters via Bank'. The names of the termini stations (e.g. Paddington, Liverpool Street) as well as the end destinations (e.g. Morden, Richmond) and major intersections (e.g. Oxford Circus) could be provided, making the map a bit more inclusive and usable for those that don't have the map etched on their brain.

If you like the look of this and want it as a phone case (...with reduced functionality), you can get it...for a steep price (when they're not sold out!)

https://www.moeco.jp.net/search?q=london

Reminds me of a functional radio built out of the tube map I saw at the London Design Museum a few years ago: https://www.designboom.com/technology/yuri-suzuki-london-und...

I wonder where he is getting the data from. I'd love to have live data from the Barcelona subway network. It happens a lot that I arrive at a station and a train is just leaving. During peak hours they go every couple of minutes but later at night it could be 10 minutes.

Transport for London have a fairly comprehensive API that has all kinds of live journey and network information: https://api.tfl.gov.uk/ - the article mentions that this project is using the API

Edit: Looks like TMB also have an API. I'm not sure how it compares to TfL's: https://developer.tmb.cat/

Thanks! Yes TMB has an API, I looked at it before but it only provided scheduled service times, not live data like you can see on the boards in the station. But I'll have another look!

I love this! There's something cool about seeing live data physically, like a little simcity running on your wall/desk. I like that it's not tied to their servers, in the event they decide to quit the business you don't have a paperweight.

> Personally I prefer the white version

I initially thought the PCB is white, before re-reading preceding text. However, I then had to search for images of white PCBs, and they're very neat too.

"coloured lights for each line – except the Northern, which sticks with white lamps."

What, nobody's invented a black LED yet?

They are all black by default but give off color when powered.

Just use a perfectly efficient solar panel

‘It’s the wild colour scheme that freaks me out,’ said Zaphod, whose love affair with the ship had lasted almost three minutes into the flight. 'Every time you try and operate these weird black controls that are labeled in black on a black background, a little black light lights up in black to let you know you’ve done it.’

Zaphod Beeblebrox, The Restaurant At The End Of The Universe

Pure electronics, visually represents the subject, and manages to be functional. I see it as art.

Cool, I think I'll do one for my home town of Warsaw....

What?! At least BoM will be lower!

So cool. I bet the electrons travel by tube.

They don't; it's all solid-state.

looks really nice

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