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Comment by Wowfunhappy | Hacker News Reader

I'm mixed on the design.

I really, really dislike the way macOS has looked since Yosemite, and compared to that, I think this one is an improvement overall. The icons have more depth, and there's far more use of color across the UI.

But, it also looks extremely mobile-inspired—I suspect Apple's primary goal was to make iOS ports and apps look less out of place. That's a fine objective, but it also means they weren't designing for desktop and laptops specifically, and it shows. For instance, most of the apps lack title bars, and I'm not sure where I'd click to drag windows as a result.

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I think the lack of title bars is an issue now. I've found it annoys me most on my web browser, when I have lots of tabs open there is one small section between the 3 dots to minimize/close and the first tab that I can use to move the window.

My guess is that they expect most people to use the application full screen and not to be moving it around. I've got a large monitor and I don't keep my windows full screened so this annoys me.

If done well, then contrast will replace color for many things (e.g. menu bars) as a separating function.

If done poorly, then it will look horrible because they got the contrast wrong.

High contrast should be used where you want someone to pay attention (like an "exit only" market on a US freeway exit). Low contrast where you want something to fade into the background (like a mile marker).

The problem with "flat" designs is that it seems hard to get it done well. Just think how long it took the industry to get the "ok" & "cancel" buttons to highlight in a consistent way for users.

I’d say at least several times per month I either accidentally nuke a background window tab when a close button "X" materialized at the last second where it looked like I could just move the thing, and the rest of the time I simply catch myself a fraction of a second before doing it.

Just-in-time UI combined with a complete lack of borders and affordances is the stupidest trend and it needs to end.

To add to that, the interactions they showed during the demo appear to be by finger, not mouse. They are treating it as iPad first, bubbling into laptops/desktops.

Apple took off with the .com boom and became a staple of every startup. But since the iPhone they've shifted to being a consumer focused company, and I don't see any reason why they would dedicate too much resources to improving their products for developers/designers.

It's pretty sad because they are still the best option. But people are not happy with them, and it's been getting worse over time. I really think Microsoft has an opportunity to cater to power users and release a really beautiful OS. But not Windows - would have to be something new

I'm pretty sure the goal isn't to make iOS apps look less out of place, rather it's to pave the way for a macOS/iPadOS merge after the 2 year ARM transition is done. Most of the UI changes across the OSes looked to be in service of stitching up the UI inconsistencies.

I’ve had that mental block the whole time I’ve used Macs (10yrs+). The “answer” is easier to work with than you’d think: most of the toolbar drags the window around, not just the title bar.

Yes—but the title-bar/toolbar combination used to look visually unified—a deeper gray distinct from the content for the window. That seems to be gone in Big Sur.

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