Health Effects of Coffee
mdpi.com
mdpi.com
Another pet theory I have is that a confounding variable in these studies is often the amount of work someone has to do, and the type of work.
Someone drinking 4+ cups of coffee likely has a reason to be that productive. Which may result in more intellectual stimulation, a higher income, and other differences that makes the two groups very different.
I'd like to see studies where the same individual both drank 4+ cups of coffee everyday for 6 months, and then quit caffeine entirely for 6 months and measure the changes in health, and output collectively but on an individual basis.
to combat this, i started researching and led me to matcha tea. i just drink a lot of matcha tea now and i found it helps with my anxiety and i'm generally more calm. it still has caffeine at lower doses so it still gives that caffeine feeling so what i'm feeling might be a placebo but definitely helps.
i did not quit coffee 100% though, i still drink it from time to time but not as often. it used to be > 4 cups of coffee per day (sometimes espresso shots) and now to 1-2 cups every 5-7 days.
i have to say my coffee journey was fun though, for the last 10 years i started from starbucks, to roasting my own beans, to aeropress and drip, to a full fledge espresso machine.
Ow!
I recently quit drinking coffee hoping I could stop grinding my teeth in the night. It hasn't helped yet, but I quit only about 3 weeks ago.
An aside, grinding your teeth in the night is very problematic because it's not something you can directly resolve unless you get a mouth guard. Trying to pinpoint stressors in my life has been an arduous process.
Sleep is easily the cornerstone of a quality day to day life. I love coffee, the taste, the ritual, etc. But I need to stop.
Then I see a lot of people doing both.
An irritated coffee drinker who has been told coffee can be harmful is going to have a whole lot more energy to produce a “counter study”.
That one I'm keeping.
There might be some tiny fraction of coffee drinkers who spaz out about stuff like that, but they'd generally be the ones spazzing out about everything.
One of the diseases that coffee helps with is gout. Gout is more or less a special form of arthritis. In most cases the root cause is genetic deficiency in how well your kidneys remove uric acid from your blood. This leads to a buildup of it, and having no place else to go, more and more of it accumulates in your joints. Then your immune system does its best to deal with a foreign substance, and sometimes this leads to runaway inflammation that causes excruciating pain.
Anyway, I can't see a connection between the kidneys' ability to filter out one specific chemical and coffee drinking behavior. Particularly since gout is usually asymptomatic for years while deposits build up in your body, and then you have episodes (attacks) where inflammation gets out of control for a while before subsiding.
I'm not a doctor though, so grain of salt
The crazy thing about coffee and gout is, since it's a diuretic, it should make gout worse, but instead it seems to make it better.
Incidentally, I'm not a doctor either. Just an interested layman. So take everything I said with a grain of salt too. Anyway, gout is super complicated since it involves metabolism AND the renal system AND the immune system AND the joints, so really nobody understands it completely.
I think it's a legitimized/legalized stimulant in place of other stimulants to increase productivity at the expense of numerous subtle risks.
I find I can never just have one cup, so I make a 50% decaf mix and have 3-4 cups spaced out over as many hours. Not only does this give a smooth and constant hit of caffeine, but it suppresses my appetite as well and I easily power right through from 5:30 until midday lunch. These are by far the most productive hours of my day.
Has this bothered your stomach? I'm worried about what all that coffee is doing on my empty stomach.
They can be fixed in almost all cases with diet and antibiotics.
Given very few quitters remain non-smokers for five years, if you can smoke about the same number of cigarettes as a cyclical quitter would in five years, you're as good.
So, I advocate for the use of multiple methods of nicotine intake. Wear patches / use gum / chewies, and if you feel like a cigarette, have one. Have ten! Rejoice!
Just smoke fewer.
Toddy / cold brew is not the same as iced coffee (iced coffee does not have the low-acid properties that toddy / cold brew does. There are also different types of beans and a dark roast is lower acidity.
Finally, if that still doesn't work, switch to matcha. You can get culinary grade from ippodo rather than the finest grade and it's the same quality.
You can even combine this with the two usual methods for low acidity coffee that you mentioned (cold brewing and using dark roasts). I haven't actually tried this combo yet but I'm keen to!
I can’t drink much coffee. Maybe it’s the acids? I don’t know. I find it’s super harsh on my stomach.
I usually just munch whole cocoa beans these days, or drink cocoa powder in hot water with milk and a small amount of sugar. Way more food-like as it’s very high in protein and fats, high in magnesium and anthocyanins, so results in an overall smoother stimulant effect and is way more nutritious.
If you feel stomach aches, you should see a doctor and make sure you don't have H. pylori, "the third highest cause of worldwide cancer mortality as of 2018" [1]. H. pylori is treatable with antibiotics.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helicobacter_pylori#Cancer
After this episode, I went to a gastroenterologist together with my wife, we both got tested. I didn't have it, my wife did. She took the antibiotic course, which was slightly unpleasant (leaves a metallic taste in your mouth, I think), but it's a small price to pay to avoid a cancer that is quite deadly (about 70% 5-year fatality rate).
So far I find it's been fine for me. If I get acid reflux it's at night after a heavy meal or alcohol.
Also, I use a thermis which keeps the coffee hot enough such that I can't actually drink it too quickly. Two cups end up lasting me till about 1pm sometimes (after which I don't want caffeine anyway).
I'm glad not to be alone in using decaf! I too will mix caf and decaf according to how much I feel I need the caf, but the coffee I definitely want because I just love good coffee. A bit of coconut oil in my morning coffee will power me through to lunch. I do also add about ~20g of high-quality 100% cocoa powder to my morning coffee, making it something of a hot chocolate, and the only deeply satisfying coffee/chocolate mix I've found yet.
That said, I've learned to avoid caffeine after noon. So if I have any more coffee after that, it's always decaf. Yes, decaf is never fully decaf, but it's decaf enough to not mess with my sleep.
I always considered myself a "night owl" who didn't like mornings and preferred to stay up late. I often spent the first hour or two of the day waiting for my body to boot up fully and for the caffeine to kick in. Now I like mornings better, and I don't look forward to the sun going down.
Switching wasn't really a problem. I didn't experience headaches or any kind of physical abstinence effects.
There are downsides to eliminating caffeine. One is that one becomes very sensitive to it. Many coffee shops don't serve decaf, and if I happen to drink a double shot of espresso even as early as 2-3pm, I will find myself stupidly awake at 2am. (On the other hand, if I feel tired one morning, some caffeine can be miraculous.)
The other problem is that the pleasure of drinking my daily latte has been greatly diminished. I used to look forward to getting it, even thinking about it before going to bed. Now it's... fine. The taste is still great. But there's something that feels like it's missing. I still crave it, but my body no longer does.
One curious question I've always struggled with is, what is a "true" cup of coffee? I've often seen people say a "coffee" cup is 6 oz, but then I'm confused by this:
1 US cup = 8 oz
1 Imperial (British) = 10 oz
1 Australian cup = 8.45 oz
Overloading is fun!
If I drink brewed coffee I’m on a steady flow for the day, sometimes making a second pot in the afternoon. I bought an espresso machine about a year ago, and one Americano in the morning pretty much sets me up for the whole day.
(In contrast to studies on alcohol consumption, where researchers have standardized units. And even on surveys will make sure to clarify with respondents so they get responses in normalized units.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3103
Also here are all the ISO standards for coffee:
https://www.iso.org/committee/47950/x/catalogue/p/1/u/0/w/0/...
They don't yet have any brewing standards but a lot of what they seem to do is by nose with green or roasted ground coffee.
https://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/store/product/ninja-reg-10-...
I’m looking for some way to get the caffeine content of specific coffee types and brands, even if those are approximate.
Caffeine is moderately soluble in water at room temperature (2 g/100 mL), but very soluble in boiling water (66 g/100 mL).
Caffeine is 33 times more soluble in hot water!
What matters more, then, is the concentration of coffee grounds to water, and how much of that water is left in the grounds.
On the other hand, you "boil" your coffee for 2 minutes, not 2880 minutes (48h). But I'm no chemist, so you might still be right, despite the different orders of magnitude. Also, we're not factoring in the water/steam pressure.
Anybody volunteers for extracting coffee with an espresso machine for 48h?
Nah, too many variables.
What I'm getting at is: if you brew identical batches with identical methods, where the only variable is the temperature, which will have more caffeine in solution?
I'm willing to bet at about the 48hr mark it probably doesn't matter a whole lot, so I probably agree-ish with ya'll.
[1]: https://www.tingstad.com/se-en/foodservice/disposable-cups/p... as an example
If I expect to drink 2 cups of coffee, then I fill it just past the "4" line. If I'm making a pot for multiple people and want 4 cups, then I fill it just past the "8" line.
I think this is pretty normal. To the point where we don't even consciously think about it. In practice, a "cup of coffee" represents two cups as measured by the manufacturers. The manufacturers say that 6 oz is a cup, but a standard American coffee cup is 12 oz.
I don't know why we don't simply make those match up.
There are already so many units called the "cup".
If we do anything along those lines, perhaps we instead define a new unit, the 'mug', that is equal to exactly two US coffee cups (12 US ounces, 1.5 US cups, 1.44 UK cups, 2.4 lungos, 0.75 Starbuckses) of coffee.
Related: https://xkcd.com/927/
Not that knowing these answers will really change my coffee drinking habits, as this seems like a ridiculous micro optimization, but it would be nice to know a bit more about the mechanism here.
It suggests that the 'cupping vessel' be "between 7 and 9 fluid ounces (207 ml to 266 ml), with a top diameter of between 3 and 3.5 inches (76 - 89 mm)"
If you change any of these variables- grind size, water temperature/volume, amount of coffee, etc, you drastically change the caffeine content.
1 us fl oz = 0.96076 * uk fl oz
Every time a coffee related subject comes up on HN, it seem that the majority is drinking it like a drug. Aren't there people that drink it because they like it?
I like coffee. I don't drink it for waking up. Coffee is also my hobby. I search for good green beans, I roast it, I heavily invest in good equipment (grinders and espresso machines) and always chasing the elusive perfect shot of espresso. It kind of makes me sad that the majority of the people view it as a drug and consume it as a drug.
I love the taste and the aroma. Good luck with your hunt for the perfect espresso! There is no other feeling like capturing the essence of those beans into a shot of espresso.
I don't really understand how getting into coffee as a hobby makes it any less of a drug. You're still consuming caffeine. There's just as much of a hobby scene around marijuana; hobbyists are still consuming THC.
No, decaf is a sin.
I just love the smell of freshly ground coffee and taste is phenomenal. I drink it with cinamone, very strong, just in boiled water (without any coffee making device) and totally without any sugar and with lots of cream. A sip of goat's milk.
However, It does seem to make me anxious.
https://digest.bps.org.uk/2020/06/22/heavy-coffee-drinkers-w...
Research method seems sketchy to my engineering mind.
I usually drink tea, because I like a hot beverage, but find that my quality of sleep and overall sense of wellbeing tends to suffer if I drink coffee. Even when I only drink it in the mornings.
But I do still like (don't love, but like) coffee, and most cafes and restaurants in my part of the world can't make a decent cup of tea to save their lives, so I often just drink coffee when I'm traveling. And I find that, even after only a few days of drinking coffee, I will experience 2 or 3 days of cravings once I get back home and return to my regularly scheduled pot of dragonwell.
For a while, I quit caffeine and sought out the best decaf beans I could find in the city and it was well worth it. I still enjoy them whenever I pick some up. I don't always want/need the caffeine but do enjoy the flavour and routine.
Made me wonder, who's the coffee lover? The one who doesn't change it or the one who consumes it even without the active ingredient?
One of the main authors was compensated by the largest coffee retailer in Germany.
It is decidedly in the interest of coffee conglomerates to demonstrate that coffee is good for society, because it justifies the great fiscal and human expenses they go to, to bring fresh coffee to your breakfast table. Not passing judgement either way, it's just an interesting lens to consider.
There was a nice article in the new yorker a couple months ago on the subject of society's shifting moods towards coffee, and how it's materialized in the literature and science. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/04/27/the-war-on-cof.... One of the reviewed books: https://www.amazon.com/Coffeeland-Mans-Empire-Making-Favorit....
Edit: oh boy. I misread the parent comment. I thought they had declared a conflict of interest. Sorry. I didn't intend for my comment to read as a corporate-research apologia.
Usually the science isn't good even with no conflicts of interest, with 80% or more of studies being non-reproducible BS full of errors and cherry-picking.
Now consider the percentage when there's also conflict of interest...
Coffee companies are businesses, not charities or art projects. They exist to make money, that is their justification for existing.
Notwithstanding whether the CoI is declared, that's about all it reads as, to be frank.
> It is decidedly in the interest of coffee conglomerates to demonstrate that coffee is good for society, because it justifies the great fiscal and human expenses they go to, to bring fresh coffee to your breakfast table.
I don't think that coffee is necessarily good for society, and that they're doing us a great service by revealing supporting information to us.
> consider the opportunity cost: we could instead be researching many other things that don't carry as high a cost as coffee (in terms of production labor, refining, and transportation), and may commute even greater benefits
I actually think we (as a society) should be more uniformly investing in the basic research: not only in things that make certain companies marginally more profitable, because now their expensive products are scientifically-proven to be "healthy".
However, I do think it's unreasonable to expect corporations to do this research for us, because they have no incentive to, as a sibling comment of yours pointed out. This vein of thought is nuanced, and I concede that it could be easily misinterpreted as apologia, given the context of my original message (which was misinformed).
To try and rescue the discussion, it's interesting to observe that many "healthy" things are "also" revenue-generating narratives. For example, "exercise is healthy" is great for the sportswear cartel, which has a similarly poor track record on human rights.
It doesn't mean that the thing itself can't be objectively healthy, but I totally agree with you that we should take these projections for what they are, especially when they're sponsored by the business that profits from them.
If you're curious in reading something that builds on the "revenue-generating narrative" idea more, I recommend the new yorker link, it's quite good. :)
People need to understand that "conflict of interest" does not mean "proof of wrongdoing", it means being in a situation where serving one interest could be a detriment to another. There is 100% a conflict of interest here.
:-)
do you worry about getting cancer from bread? Bread ovens are about 200F hotter.
The smoke that the roaster produces towards the end of roast is no joke, and some has to get on the beans, but I'd say it is minimal enough to not be an issue as there should be plenty of air flowing through the roaster at that point.
If roasted improperly oils could seep out of the beans while in the roaster which burn as well and stick to the beans. I'd say that is more of an issue than the smoke or roasting too dark.
They’re definitely burned!
But -- any truth to this legend?
If you were to concentrate and inhale the smoke from roasting beans, that would most certainly have deleterious health effects.
It stands to reason, then, that at least some of those nasties are left in the beans when they cool.
However, whether drinking some coffee is always bad will depend if the linear no threshold hypothesis is true for roasted coffee beans?
Otherwise I'm more productive without the crash.
Feeling the elevated heart rate while being tired and not able to take a nap indeed sucks. I get why people just start drinking 3-5 cups a day.
Granted it's suggested to cook these a bit to maximize absorbtion because cell walls & things
Is the western diet really so weak that coffee is a major source of our vegetable intake?
I think the evidence that vegetables are all that healthy is not that great and the statistical effects are not large.
Phytochemicals may be hormetic stressors, or they may just be stressors most bodies can deal with, but do not actually benefit from. Antioxidants in particular seem to not live up to expectations.
The way I understood it, the study aims to correlate benefits with the "plant" contents of coffee. What would be interesting to me is to see more about the effect of the roast. The study touches on it in a couple of points ("Phenolic Phytochemicals in Coffee May Account for Health Effects" where a darker roast produces more phenolic components), but I could do with something more specifically targeting the roast differences.
Let's hope politicians with influence over school lunch menus don't misuse this result.
For the case of drinking coffee it’s easier but still a bit tricky. For workers and the environment I think that gets very hard but we should be trying to quantify it anyway.
In the absence of coffee, How are they earning a living? Admittedly coffee provides a meager living for the people doing the growing, but what replaces it and are they worse or better off. I honestly don’t have a good idea.
i also suspect that large coffee consumption is better if you compare people that don’t get enough sleep (as someone that does not drink coffee will have a better quality of sleep - unless you drink 5 cups in the morning)