Hacker News Reader

Comment by henryfjordan | Hacker News Reader

They use security screws to deter passer-by from unscrewing the screws. It's very easy to fashion something that will unscrew a flat or Philips head screw while security screw basically require the right screwdriver. Useful in elevators, bathrooms, or anywhere the public might be a nuisance.

This also prevents people from unscrewing their Macbook and messing something up then coming into the store and complaining. If you are willing to go out of your way to get the right screwdriver, you probably know what you are doing inside of the laptop.

View on HN

> This also prevents people from unscrewing their Macbook and messing something up then coming into the store and complaining.

Right. Because this happens all the time with laptops that use regular screws, and there is no way to tell if the damage has been caused by someone opening up the machine and destroying something.

There is no good reason for keeping people away from the insides of the computer they paid (a fortune) for, and yet Apple gets away with it.

If you have a philips screw, get a philips driver. If you have a tri-wing screw, get a tri-wing driver. Sure the latter aren’t as common, but they’re readily available from countless online stores. Unless your Government has outlawed certain types of driver, it’s absurd to say that one screw type locks you out more than the other.

It's not absurd. Just because it's available somewhere doesn't mean it's easy to find. Also you're having your arm twisted to purchase something that will probably be used very little elsewhere in your life. Why not just use the more common screw and make things a bit easier?!

It's almost like a company using an uncommon electrical plug on their power cable, and expecting everyone to buy an adapter to use it. People would be outraged.

My decking was installed with a somewhat uncommon drill bit that isn’t in many people’s household toolkits. Is my decking user hostile?

If there is a valid mechanical/electrical/physical reason why they would choose one fixing over the other, then fair enough - sometimes the more esoteric product can be the correct or only one for the job. If they're just doing it for the sake of making it harder to work with, then, by definition, it's user hostile.

What screw head did they use?

It’s just a small star shaped screw IIRC but nothing specific to Apple; other small electronics use these too.

Square. You won’t find square bits in any supermarket or gas station store. But they’re readily available in hardware stores.

Similarly, the screwdriver bits needed to open a MacBook are readily available from computer repair parts stores.

Seems perfectly analogous to me.

Those are Robertson-bit screws, and are ubiquitous here in Canada. (Also a Canadian invention, don'tcha know.) https://www.robertsonscrew.com/

They work great with a power driver, such as you'd want for putting in a deck or fence, so 2-3" deck screws are like my version of duct tape around the house.

BTW, I wish manufacturers would stop using Philips screws. Hex or Torx is so much better design.

Depends on the application, Torx doesn't cam out for example which in some cases could be undesirable.

I don't see why cam out should be ever desirable. Use torque wrench if necessary. Meanwhile, with Philips this turns out: screw is fastened with cam out torque ... some time later ... due to dirt, rust, etc. it now requires slightly more torque to unfasten, but that is higher than cam out! So now you have to wrestle to push driver stronger, each failed attempt wears screw more, and of course you can hurt yourself when it cams out when pushing strongly.

I agree that cam out is not usually desirable, however it could be used as a safety mechanism against excessive torque for the material being screwed into (although it's probably not the best way to implement a safety measure).

> Useful in elevators, bathrooms, or anywhere the public might be a nuisance.

True, but I'm not in the habit of randomly picking a laptop off of someone else's desk and disassembling it.

Well, at my Alma Mater in Rome I heard the story that all machines in the “internet lab” (we’re talking ‘00s here) had their RAMs ripped out and replaced with older and smaller sizes, as well as all the CPUs.

Ideally admins should have chained and locked them, but a weird driver would have reduced the incidence of the problem

Would it though? They already had matching, smaller size, RAM modules. If they went this far, they could definitely get the proper tools as well.

It’s just a screw which is better for machines. They don’t really care if you can open it or not, since it’s hard enough with any screw. But they do care if assembly robot makes less mistakes.

Torx works fine for machines. As do hex heads. This is just a ploy.

I for one am very glad that my father-in-law doesn’t have the screwdriver that would open his MacBook. Otherwise it would already be broken.

One person’s “ploy” is another person’s “essential feature”.

Well, maybe he'd learn something useful, maybe not. But it is his MacBook and regardless of whether you are glad about it or not he should be able to do with it as he pleases. Clearly, other laptop manufacturers survive just fine using normal screws. Treating computers as though they are disposable appliances that can not be repaired, in fact constructing them in that way on purpose is neither desirable nor does it make sense from an ownership and an ecological perspective, even if there are edge cases where it is beneficial.

But he can do as he pleases. He can go on eBay or amazon and buy the correct driver.

Your logic seems to be that if you can’t open a device with tools available at your local gas station store, it’s user hostile?

And it’s quite egotistical and “in the bubble” to say that opening your devices is something everyone should be able to stumble into. If you applied that logic to everything we own, nobody would have any time to do anything else.

> And it’s quite egotistical and “in the bubble” to say that opening your devices is something everyone should be able to stumble into.

That makes no sense. It is selfish to have a right to open a device you have purchased?

> If you applied that logic to everything we own, nobody would have any time to do anything else.

Having a right to open your own device does not mean you are required to do so nor do you have to spend all your time opening the devices around your house. It is also beneficial in the sense that if you are not willing to open your own device you can go to a third party you trust to open it without requiring the manufacturers permission.

I agree with everything you said. You seem to be arguing against someone else, not with what I wrote.

Where I don’t agree is your inference that using a less common but still readily available screw head means you have “no right” to open your device.

Minor inconveniences are not the same as a loss of rights, and it’s astonishing that anyone would try to conflate the two.

My apologies for misinterpreting what you intended to say.

> Minor inconveniences are not the same as a loss of rights, and it’s astonishing that anyone would try to conflate the two.

They are not entirely the same, but a world with less standards (that are high quality and open) seems like a better place. I enjoy being able to use USB ubiquitously. If every company had their own screw head standards that seems objectively worse. Apple's product design definitely feels like they want it to be as difficult as possible to open.

Torx is mechanically superior to hex. I would expect an expensive laptop to have mechanically superior fastenings.

https://rtstools.com/why-torx-bolts-are-better-than-hex-bolt...

A bolt for a laptop is just a bolt. The kind of mechanical superiority that you'd get out of using Tor-x vs a hex head is not something that would make your expensive laptop any better. Simple Philips heads would be fine, hex heads are more than good enough and Tor-x likely overkill. They do look nice though.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com