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Comment by Wowfunhappy | Hacker News Reader

I want an e-ink web browsing tablet.

I want to be able to go to nytimes.com, or Vox, or Hacker News, and read the articles and comment threads on a high-contrast screen that doesn't hurt my eyes. I don't want to use some read-later service that sends specific articles to my e-reader, I want to just navigate to the sites directly. There would be trade-offs for sure, but it seems like the benefits would outweigh the downsides.

I've been waiting for ~ 10 years now. Am the only one? Is anyone ever going to make this?

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There are many, you're just not seeing them because they're probably out of your usual tech bubble. Check goodereader.com for their eReader reviews. They often review eReaders which are running Android with web browsers in it, recently they reviewed a couple eInk smartphones, including a color eInk one.

There is a lot going on in the eReader world but it is at the fringe of the tech bubble of SV. It is in Europe and Asia, specially Asia.

The usual FAANG companies don't want you using that stuff because it moves you away from their silos and platforms. If you start using a device to read books away from their profiling disguised as social interaction, away from their ad machines, and walled garden shops, they lose money. Oh boy, that sounded way more conspirational than I wanted. What I want to mean here is that since these type of eReaders do not favour major tech companies from the USA, they're usually not covered in their platforms or news media that follows SV stuff.

Indeed, came to say the same thing. I have the Likebook Mars Android device, and it's leaps and bounds better than the Kindle.

Literally my only complaint about the device is that it runs an outdated and heavily skinned version of Android. I wouldn't recommend this device today for that reason, but there are a lot of options running newer versions these days.

It's a shame Google doesn't offer a "pixel" device like this, unlocked and without all the junk. For whatever reason, though, Google seems completely uninterested in eink.

Both the Kindle and the Kobo have "experimental" web browsers, but it you try to read any webpage that was made after the year 2000 or so, the site is nearly impossible to navigate on them. Even freaking Wikipedia mobile pages are pretty annoying to read on my Kobo. I end up saving the page to Pocket if it's particularly long due to the headache of e-ink redrawing on longform pages.

The hardware isn't enough. The modern web itself resists being displayed on single-purpose devices.

Now that you mention it - this makes an open source device such as this interesting. Make it go through your own self-hosted proxy, which renders the page to and sends over something suitable for the ereader. Like Opera Mini if anyone remembers. I think calibre has features that can be used as a foundation to build on.

Hmm I remember that opera browser in the early days of iOS, that’s not a bad idea! Kinda like a plex transcode but for text.

How would you navigate tho?

You could still have a web browser with address bars and links and all that, just with “transrendered” responses. No need for css or JS.

It's not quite the same, but Calibre can actually generate epubs from websites. There's a recipe called "HN with comments links" which will create an epub with the articles from the current front page. It works surprisingly well. I have a VPS which generates this daily and which I download onto my Kobo in the morning.

Yeah- part of the reason is that a browser is an extremely expensive piece of machinery to host from a hardware utilization perspective. The horsepower required on the device is extremely high.

eInk displays are incredibly limited- low refresh rates, low density, limited/no color, limited/no touch etc.

It just doesn't make sense to build a product with that combination- high end under the hood, low end IO to the user.

Those exists now, in the form of eink Android phone/tablet. The refresh rate of eink makes their experience suboptimal, but some find it usable enough.

You can search for Boox tablet, or Hisense A5 phone.

There's also ones from Sony, Supernote, and Remarkable.

None of those appears to be Android, which IMO makes them have less utility value. There's definitely pros and cons though, and one should research which is right for them.

Android sucks on tablets. I had a Nexus 7 which is probably the last and only decent Android tablet.

I know the Remarkable has some third party software for it because it's running a version of Linux. The others probably do as well.

I used to think so too, until I tried and bought one of the recent Samsung Tabs. Excellent experience on par with iPad.

Sure, the hardware is great. Depending on what you do, it's the software that is miles behind. The Android app situation is worse to begin with and Android developers pay almost no attention to big screen tablets because so few people have them. The app situation on the iPad isn't amazing, but it is better. I think Procreate alone is responsible for a lot of iPad sales.

Plus Android tablets are deceptively expensive. They aren't going to receive updates for as long as the iPad and when you sell it, the resale value is as good.

Huawei M5 8.4" is an excellent Android tablet very much in the spirit of Nexus 7 (but with better screen and other hardware).

Oh that's interesting, I missed this one: https://www.techrepublic.com/article/review-onyx-boox-max3-a...

I know I shouldn't be complaining about price now that I've heard it exists at all, but $840 is really steep! I was thinking something more like $400. I know it's a niche product, but even so.

Take a look at the smaller models, like Onyx Nova 2 or Note 2; if you're ok with smaller size, they're cheaper

The Max3 has a giant screen (larger than the biggest iPad Pro). I'm still getting used to mine, but I mostly like it.

The web browsing experience is OK, but it's slow and monochrome.

Monochrome is expected. Do you say it's slow because of the screen's refresh rate, or do pages take a long time to render?

I'm kind of eying the BOOX Nova2, which is in my price range at $340. The screen is 7.8", which is ~ 2" smaller than what I'd ideally want, but not by much.

It's mostly the refresh rate, I think. The processor is fairly decent.

what was interesting was this one:

I thought the boox was interesting

But what about this one? https://amzn.com/B07XG9T898

it's a lenovo laptop with an e-ink screen

It's interesting, but I really have no interest in a laptop I can't type on.

On a tablet, I just acknowledge that I won't be typing, and I live with it due to the form factor's other advantage (namely, it's easier to lay back on the couch with a tablet than a laptop).

I think there's an actual keyboard on the other side of the e-ink screen. So It appears to have an lcd display, an e-ink display and a keyboard.

No the keyboard is a virtual keyboard using the e-ink display.

You can type, in the sense that what you type is appearing on the fast color screen not the e-ink, so you can go as fast as you want.

But it's probably terrible because there are no mechanical keys, just a flat touch screen displaying a virtual keyboard like an ipad.

Also Kingrow K1, although I'm not sure they're available for sale anywhere yet - I got mine from the crowdfunding campaign. It makes for a very convenient eInk reader with the corresponding apps installed (and it comes with Kindle out of the box).

Unfortunately, there's no Google Play Store on it. But that doesn't preclude web browsing with Chromium or Firefox.

Me too. I've been keeping my eyes out for an e-ink based Android smartphone for a couple years now. There are a couple options out there - largely Asia-based manufacturers - but none of them have proper support for the frequencies my cell carrier uses.

I really wanted the Pixel Qi to release something and succeed but they are gone now.

Same here. Every once in a while I look at the OLPC sitting in my closet and wish I had the electronics knowledge to be able to hook the screen up to a raspberry pi.

My Kobo Glo has an experimental web browser that works fairly well. It has no reader mode which would be nice on an eReader, but its still a reasonable experience.

Well, the Kindle has a web browser. What's wrong with that?

It's slow to the point of being painful to use, never mind actually pleasant. I know the refresh rate is always going to be crap, but there's no reason we can't get half-decent internals alongside an e-ink screen.

Have you tried the Kindle Oasis?

Is the Oasis performance that different than the Paperwhite?

I personally am less concerned with closed-platform reader technology, and more concerned with closed-platform content. If a reader will let me sideload my open content, I'm reasonably okay with it. (Yes, I acknowledge supporting such an ecosystem is contributing to the overall problem.)

Glider pilots have simialar requirements - they need screens readable in bright dailight, which is most of their flights (really, if you are under a cloud for extended ammount of time, you are either rapidly loosing height as there are not thermals anymore or are entering a cloud on top of a thermal, which should be avoided at all costs due to gliders being VFR only) to display maps and navigation apps.

The problem is that most gliders are not very rich & fly on shared hardware of the local flying club. So there is no incentive for manufacturers to build a device for this kinda small and nit very afluent community.

IIRC a couple years ago some of them we using hacked Kobo devices.

I've tried it a few times on my kindle, and it sounds like a nice things to have. However, the screen's refresh rate is crazy low. I'm guessing that can be improved, but that would likely come with a battery life hit. More importantly, good luck scrolling on a webpage where it takes you a second to see how far you've scrolled. Same issue were you to respond to a comment: typing with that sort of latency is absolutely dreadful. E-ink works great for displaying text and is so much better for reading than a screen, but there's definitely some more technological work to be done first.

I'd expect to be using the equivalent of page-up/page-down buttons to scroll through sites.

I wouldn't expect to be typing on it—but, I've absolutely seen e-ink screens that can refresh quickly enough for typing. They start artifacting a bit when you force them to refresh quickly—which lessens the contrast advantage—but then they fix themselves once the screen has a moment to "refresh" itself.

Just as you've said, it's a battery life / refresh rate trade-off. Dasung makes some e-ink tablets and external displays that have a dedicated hardware button to switch between various modes - in "fast mode", it's good enough to type text and use the mouse. But, of course, don't expect anything like Kindle battery life.

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