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Comment by epistasis | Hacker News Reader

I'm surprised how one sided the conversation is here.

This isn't "mob rule," this is the reasoned opinions of skilled scientists saying that Hsu's political opinions are 1) not backed by the science, and 2) establish strong ground to believe that he will not use his position of power fairly.

People have a right to be judged fairly in their careers, and those in leadership positions should not be unfairly prejudiced by bad beliefs. It might be fine for a tenured physics professor, but it's not OK for somebody making hiring and promotion decisions.

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1. The idea that someone’s political views are not backed by science is a pretty bold claim. Who decides what political views are acceptably scientific? 2. Strong grounds? Is it possible to quickly present strong grounds in a twitter thread? Up until today he has done well in his job, and no one seemed to have a problem with him for 8 years. His boss or colleagues. Now, suddenly, we have deep concerns about how he hires people... why exactly? Because his political views aren’t scientific?

This is tribal mob rule under the guise of a sophisticated intellectual rationalization.

Up until today? You have no idea what you are talking about. I have colleagues at the university that have been trying to have him removed for years; several have left in part because of him.

Can you elaborate on the details that your colleagues conveyed to you?

That doesn’t mean much, other than they are probably part of the problem mob.

things are different nowadays, that's all. a few things have happened -- pandemic, injustices, etc... -- that is making people take stand and speak up.

i don't know much about the situation but your comment about people not calling out others for years doesn't mean things worth calling out someone for didn't happen...

It's also possible many of these colleagues had concerns, but weren't previously airing them publicly.

Just searching academics I follow, the one thread that popped up from a year ago was this https://twitter.com/Graham_Coop/status/1132105378668326912

In which it seems many of these criticisms were well known at least a year ago. I hadn't previously followed this, but it seems like this was probably a case of the dam finally bursting.

This is definitely the case of the dam finally bursting. For example, a famous geneticist who left said this: https://twitter.com/ctitusbrown/status/1271082397656735746?s...

I also have friends on the faculty. This is the dam bursting and should have happened a long time ago.

The person with #shutdownSTEM in their twitter profile pic?

#shutdownSTEM was a wildly popular strike day recently, I think they can be excused from not changing it back yet.

On what planet should “shutdown STEM” be a reasonable position to hold in the middle of a global pandemic where hundreds of thousands or millions of people’s lives depend on quality STEM research being done in a timely manner?

Spending one day to learn to restructure STEM to increase its innovation and output is of the utmost reasonableness.

If you are not a scientist and did not bother to find out what the day was about, why are you prejudging it?

The hashtag is not #RestructureSTEM, it’s #ShutdownSTEM, and he’s apparently had it up for 11 days. In a pandemic killing hundreds of thousands, in all likelihood eventually millions, of people. In my view, that says all I need to know about this person. He’s a raging asshole.

This is the same problem, by the way, as the people tweeting #DefundPolice who get upset at people who think they want to abolish the police entirely. The word “defund” means to remove funding for, not to reduce funding for. It’s the height of arrogance to come up with a slogan either intentionally or accidentally using a word to mean something totally different from what it actually means, and then get upset that I am not willing to learn more about a movement that is effectively engaged in trolling.

You do not know what the hashtag means, have not bothered to research it, are ignoring somebody telling you what it means. Instead, from a few small characters you are extrapolating a bunch of nonsense that fits your own narrative, rather than seeking the truth.

I do not believe that there can be any productive conversation unless you decide to seek truth instead of seeking validation of your preconceived notions.

Is there an actual example of what was said? Otherwise this is just another empty accusation.

I don’t know anything about the specific dynamics of the problem — so perhaps you’re right. But I have a general problem with the catalyst to being removed being a twitter mob. Whether it should have happened long ago, was deserved, or not.

If people should be fired or removed from a position that’s fine, I don’t know Hsu beyond his blog. But this is a method that is dangerous to societal function.

There is a petition in support of him which also has some big names. That should be sufficient to warrant further investigation rather than immediately forcing him to resign.

https://sites.google.com/view/petition-letter-stephen-hsu/ho...

Signatures include:

  Scott Aaronson
  Scott Alexander
  Sam Altman
  Linda S. Gottfredson, Professor Emeritus, University of Delaware, Past President of the International Society for Intelligence Research
  Jonathan Haidt, Professor, New York University Stern School of Business, USA
  Geoffrey Miller
  Steven Pinker, Johnstone Family Professor of Psychology, Harvard University
  Robert Plomin, Professor, Institute of Psychiatry, Psychology and Neuroscience, King’s College London

Notice how none of them are actual geneticists. Prominent figures in the actual genetics community (e.g. Graham Coop or Ewan Birney) have dismissed most of his stuff.

Videos from years ago are being taken out of context in order to make him seem racist and sexist. It is ridiculous.

We have gotten to the point where no matter what you say or do, there is always a victim ready to complain.

And now it’s even worse, if science doesn’t back our political beliefs or feelings , let’s just shut down science!

I have no idea about Hsu's research, but if you think that 'skilled scientists' in academia are not often as ruthlessly political as anyone else then gosh, do I have some research bridge projects to sell to you.

In terms of a battle of signatures, I'm not sure how meaningful that is, given that there's a <huge> list of reputationally prestigious names backing Stephen Hsu.

https://sites.google.com/view/petition-letter-stephen-hsu/ho...

Here's a letter from a professor at the university:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bNPOlcphtKfqoDThfdsYTL65...

These are people who are not arguing on any scientific basis, but rather against any evidence that we've collected and against further collection that might prove for or otherwise.

Those in leadership positions for a scientific position should not forge their beliefs on the political zeitgeist, but on sound methods and the data stemming thereof.

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