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Comment by hirundo | Hacker News Reader

I can't stop. I've been buying computers and peripherals and gizmos since 1974. I have a house full of them. I code for food. But I've yet to buy my first Apple product or service. Yes, it's mostly because I'm cheap. But it's also because I avoid walled gardens. I feel pretty good about that now. Climb on out, y'all, the weather's fine out here in the jungle.

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Am I the only one who loves Apple products?

I love MacOS. I love iOS. I love all things Apple. Customer service is totally top notch. Physical quality is excellent, of course I have my wishes and pet peeves (don’t like cold aluminum, stupid touchbar, keyboard!).

I’m willing to pay even double the cost of other cheaply made products from Asus, Acer, Samsung, etc.

Not to mention the whole ecosystem thing and I trust Apple with my data - more than Google and I can’t even think about Microsoft (windows is a billboard of ads). If China had a competitor to Apple for OS/hardware (not talking about Foxconn, that’s a ODM), they would need to literally convert to democracy before they can even get in the playing field. They’re not even in the same league, not even the same sport right now.

Initially, I was apathetic. Then I liked Apple products. Then I started loving them. They’re arrogant, they care about you, they made mistakes, they charge a lot of premium - I love them. They must have done something right to win me?

I'm with you entirely. I love what they're doing with hardware. I am fascinated with their SoC/SiPs. My kids are wildly successful with iOS/MacOS UIs in comparison to the competiton (especially ChromeOS, good lord is that a usability nightmare), and I think this speaks volumes about the quality of their ui/ux investment.

> especially ChromeOS, good lord is that a usability nightmare

My dad recently got one of these to have something simpler since all he really needs is a web browser, and damn, you aren't kidding. Like, the OS isn't even that "big" here, guys, how is it so thoroughly mediocre? The accessibility settings in particular are like something from the 90s, after being used to what modern iOS and macOS offer. Felt like a half-assed afterthought. Didn't work very well. Considering much of the target market for it is old people and kids, that's incredibly inconsiderate.

Oh and then of course the settings screen itself was hard to navigate and poorly organized, but that much I expected (google is weirdly bad at settings screens across basically all their products, IME)

You're right on the money. It's entirely unacceptable considering how heavy-handed the push towards chromebooks were for educational institutions. My 10 year old has been in a public school where they used Chromebooks, and a charter school where they used iPads, and the conversations regarding tech I'd have with her teachers were night and day. Constant issues and support with the chromebooks, and the iPads "just worked."

Apple is not without it's faults, but when UI/UX is concerned, Google, heck all of us, should strive to put forth more effort to try to think things all the way through.

I like Apple products too. I listen to multiple podcasts that are pretty much Apple News/commentary. I like their privacy stance, design, etc. Even products I have no use for like the watch and iPad Pros blow my mind with their use cases especially for non-developers. Having a Unix-like terminal with stable and long-lasting hardware helped me as a young developer in college. Hardware has been hit and miss lately but they are slowly making a comeback... with some caveats.

I don't "like" Apple the company (neutral to negative depending on the news) because well, it's a company. The 30% forced cut is BS and its main result is worse apps for consumers and a worse experience for devs. I try to not be a fanboy or instinctively defend them. But yeah, in my 10+ years of being in the ecosystem, I am pretty happy.

Their privacy stance is pure marketing bluff. Any alternative phone you can buy in the US is going to be better for your privacy.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23329646

Do you have any evidence that GPS isn't sent by all phones sold in the USA? I would bet this is a requirement for 911 support (likely required by government regulation on the phone service provider) rather than an Apple "violation of privacy".

> For safety purposes, however, your iPhone’s location information may be used when you place an emergency call to aid response efforts regardless of whether you enable Location Services.[1]

[1] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207056

iPhone sends your location data to Apple, not just when you dial an emergency number, but every time you use GPS, and there is no way to turn this off. The absurdity of a company marketing a phone that does that (among the other things I listed) as private is astounding. The fact that people fall for this marketing is even more astounding.

This Hey example is another one. If you want to sign up for Hey on an iPhone, Apple is saying that you have to let them know that you are subscribing to Hey, and moreover, you have to give your billing details to Apple, which (unless you take some extra steps) means telling Apple who you are and where you live.

I think they're fine products but they just don't work for me. I need full control over my stuff and apple won't give it to me. Of course, given that I don't like Apple, some of the stuff they do like iMessage and the hurdles to make apps for ios annoys me

Every other vendor (and OS) takes my time instead of my money. If I'm not forcing myself to be aware of it I can be fooled into thinking some of this time is work, but it's not—it's pure wasted time. Apple products do sometimes, too, but nowhere near as much. I wish anyone else would get good at this whole "making consumer and 'pro' devices that don't suck" game.

Or if Apple'd take the Mac line back to being somewhat overpriced rather than wildly overpriced, that'd be nice too. They swing back and forth, it seems, and right now the premium is way on the high end, especially with their base specs continuing to lag (a $1300 "pro" laptop should have a base of 16GB of memory, not 8, for instance).

The MacPro is overpriced but they're trying to differentiate - what desktop computer has absolutely pornographic insides, full CNC metal body, display that hits all checkboxes (except for refresh rate). Nothing else out there. So, they can get away with charging more.

Consumers are kind of assholes, especially the average consumer. They demand that Apple reduce their price to make it affordable for them. Why? Why should they? If they can get by with charging more than we should blame the competitive landscape, and not the only company that's pushing the boundaries of what's possible.

Everyone else is cutting corners, selling ads, backstabbing customers.

I used to love Apple products when I was a kid.

This is Apple's 1984 commercial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtvjbmoDx-I

They aren't the same company anymore. They started making fun of people that used other products. They started to say you can only use use Apple products this way. They started to say, "you're holding it wrong". They started to just pretend to be user-friendly and stopped actually being user-friendly.

> They aren't the same company anymore. They started making fun of people that used other products. They started to say you can only use use Apple products this way. They started to say, "you're holding it wrong". They started to just pretend to be user-friendly and stopped actually being user-friendly.

Any examples? I think they're pretty user friendly in many ways. As I said, they are arrogant but I am fine with that. May be you're not, to each their own. I don't like their repairability stance and some of the shit they do to screw the consumer over. But, I can put up with that because they just replace my whole laptop or whatever device. I took the magic keyboard (standalone one) after 3 years and clearly out of warranty, and they just gave me a new one because 1 key was stuck. IMO more positive experiences than negative.

I'm a PC ads

Can't customize iOS without jailbreaking it

Antennagate

This is a weak set of arguments, no offense. I am a PC ads was almost 13 years ago. Antennagate? Samsung Galaxy Note 7? Apple also messed up their whole keyboard fiasco, but they did replace my macbook pro chassis free of cost outside of warranty. So did Samsung with their battery fiasco. Jailbreaking is done by literally impossible to see slice of the consumer base. Apple is not going to give up their T2 security and enclave and all the privacy aspects to open up their software to public hacking. This would go against the FBI case with Apple, remember?

> Any examples?

I answered your question, I'm sorry they don't meet your standards.

Speaking of anecdotes: Apple didn't fix or replace my iPhone that was under warranty.

And why are you changing the subject to hacking?

The 1984 commercial highlights that Apple has always made fun of people who used other products (who do you think is in the audience? Consumers of their competitors products).

The 90's slogan "Think Different" was a direct shot across the bow of IBM's slogan "Think". When they say "here's to the crazy ones" they're directly saying their customers are inherently different from the customers of their competitors.

That's how Apple has always been.

Seriously. It _is_ just fine out here. There's choice! It could be better -- it is very Googly. But there is wiggle room that has been growing even, with LineageOS, F-Droid, PinePhone/PostmarketOS, etc.

And it was also completely predictable that the walled garden would evolve into what it has become. It's easy to choose otherwise...

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