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mark_and_sweep

> Since its introduction in late 2016 Angular 2+ has had no major changes

As someone who has used Angular 2 since beta, I can tell you, it's been a bumpy ride nonetheless.

> its target audience - large companies making large-scale applications - is fairly conservative

React was built for Facebook, which is a large company building a large-scale application.

> All this won't matter once the next gen compiler-frameworks reach maturity.

And here I am using HTML and CSS with tiny sprinkles of JS for most websites, and it's working just fine, and has been for many years.

Personally, I hope that server-side rendering will be the new ~old~ trend.

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> As someone who has used Angular 2 since beta, I can tell you, it's been a bumpy ride nonetheless.

Oh yeah. I remember the "let's just apply the good parts of AngularJS here and there" in v4-6.

"React was built for Facebook, which is a large company building a large-scale application."

One large scale application, which is not enough to create stable conventions that are badly needed in a framework that's supposed to be used in multiple such projects done by very different organisations.

Personally, I hope that server-side rendering will be the new ~old~ trend.

Users don't tolerate the inherent delays caused by this approach anymore.

All those hoops current frameworks are jumping through so that we can eat the cake and have it too are there because of this.

> Users don't tolerate the inherent delays caused by this approach anymore.

Well, I certainly also do not tolerate the delays in contemporary React sites either. Take Reddit for example, which used to be lightning fast when it was mostly serverside, which now is painfully slow, especially on mobile.

Yep, I agree. Was just talking to my wife about Reddit. It's so slow now, especially on mobile. The page constantly crashes on my Android phone and they always recommend the app. No thanks.

Today is the day I decided to switch to old reddit... My Mac can run garageband and vsc and 40 chrome tabs at once, but as soon as I click a front page Reddit link, that modal is like pouring sludge into my computer.

> Users don't tolerate the inherent delays caused by this approach anymore.

Well, I'm from Germany, but have a 6-y/o Android phone and live in a rural area with poor EDGE connectivity (~50kb/s). Most "modern" websites don't load/work for me.

From my personal experience, there's quite a few people now saying that their computing devices are getting faster and faster every year whereas the majority of websites, uh, webapps are seemingly getting slower each year...

This is also not just a problem with mobile and poor connectivity. Here's an example from my high-powered desktop work-station with a 100 mbits: When I open https://github.com/, my repositories (on the left) are server-rendered and shown instantly as the site is loaded, which usually happens in under 1s. The activity feed in the middle is rendered asynchronously on the client. It usually takes around 3-6s to finish rendering on my machine (while there is space for 5-8 activity feed items on my screen).

Optimizing SPAs is notoriously hard. You don't really have to optimize HTML.

> As someone who has used Angular 2 since beta, I can tell you, it's been a bumpy ride nonetheless.

I can second this - I've been working on a variety of Angular apps in an enterprise environment. It's worked fine and the "batteries included" has worked for my org, but it has definitely been a bumpy ride to get from beta to 9 with plenty of changes along the way.

> And here I am using HTML and CSS with tiny sprinkles of JS for most websites, and it's working just fine, and has been for many years.

This has been my favorite setup at work - pick "boring" tech like Django/Flask or Spring Boot and then sprinkle in some Javascript for highly interactive forms/pieces (React or Vue if needed).

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